"Can't get a good jump here."

[ctorg]

Originally posted by rbux
Conversely, I find it even more frustrating that an A speed runner hits into double play as often as an E runner. Doesn't look like running speed is considered in beating out a double play. In reality Ichiro is virtually never doubled off, yet he hits into just as many as Jay Gibbons (E/E) does for me???!!!

To be fair, the ability to avoid double plays is not entirely contingent on speed. I remember that Mookie Wilson used to hit into a ton of DPs, even though he was quite fast. It also has to do with how well a guy gets out of the box.

However, speed should play some factor in this. Perhaps there should be some sort of rating for avoiding DPs.

[M's rule]

Originally posted by ctorg
To be fair, the ability to avoid double plays is not entirely contingent on speed. I remember that Mookie Wilson used to hit into a ton of DPs, even though he was quite fast. It also has to do with how well a guy gets out of the box.

However, speed should play some factor in this. Perhaps there should be some sort of rating for avoiding DPs.

Yes, IRL it's highly possible for runners with good speed (and, of course, runners who are good at stealing) to nevertheless ground into a decent number of DPs.

At the same time, how well a guy gets out of the box is only one of many factors that plays into whether a GIDP occurs. Be that as it may, it's a characteristic for which OOTP already has a cubbyhole: a player's speed rating.

Far as I've been able to tell, the speed rating is only important when the AI is determining when a runner successfully takes the extra base after a hit--how fast he gets from point A to point B. When the game gives me the option of waving a runner around or telling him to hold, and I send him, it seems that the A and B speed guys are safe significantly more often than the D and E guys.

I'm not convinced that speed is factored in when the AI decides whether or not a runner gets a good jump, because back when I used to try straight steals, the main reason I got frustrated and went to calling the h&r was that my A/A (speed/steal) and B/B guys were failing to get a good jump just as often as the C/B and C/C guys were.

Still, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to decide that speed rating should take into account reflexes and reaction time, which could be represented in game terms by a hitter's ability to get out of the box (thus avoiding DPs) and a runner's ability to get a good jump on a steal attempt--which is the most effective way to reduce the time it takes to get from point A (leading off 1st) to point B (sliding into 2nd). So, if reducing this time is what speed is all about, as it seems to be whenever I get a chance to wave a runner around 3rd, why can't an A/A guy just take off for 2nd every time I tell him to?

Sorry to ramble on. This issue has turned into one of my few OOTP pet peeves.

[ctorg]

Speed rating does have a very strong bearing on whether or not a guy gets a good jump. Make a league with a bunch of guys who are E-A and a bunch of guys who are A-A and see who gets more steals.

If it didn't have that bearing, and there were an additional "getting a good jump" rating, it would be better, since speed has little to do with getting a good jump.

[BleedDodgerBlue]

Kind of along the same lines, am I the only one who think the pickoff totals might be artificially high? It seems like I get about 100 or so runners picked off base over the course of a 162 game season. I'm not talkin' about caught stealing, that happens, but it seems like if I'm threatening to score and there's two out, WHOOPS! Guy gets picked off, rally is miraculously over.

Anybody else seeing that, especially with A/A or A/B guys?

[ctorg]

Originally posted by BleedDodgerBlue
Kind of along the same lines, am I the only one who think the pickoff totals might be artificially high? It seems like I get about 100 or so runners picked off base over the course of a 162 game season. I'm not talkin' about caught stealing, that happens, but it seems like if I'm threatening to score and there's two out, WHOOPS! Guy gets picked off, rally is miraculously over.

Anybody else seeing that, especially with A/A or A/B guys?

I've heard others make this complaint, but I really haven't noticed the rates being anywhere near that high for my games that I play out. I occasionally see a pickoff, but not often.

It would probably be good if players had some sort of baserunning rating that would make them more or less likely to get picked off/get caught trying to extend a hit/etc. Perhaps that rating could also be used in determining their abilities to get leads.

[Giants44]

my biggest issue is the inabilty to attempt a steal with two strikes. I understand the need to limit steals with the "no jump" but two strike steals are an everyday occurance - they should be possible in the game.

[ctorg]

Originally posted by Giants44
my biggest issue is the inabilty to attempt a steal with two strikes. I understand the need to limit steals with the "no jump" but two strike steals are an everyday occurance - they should be possible in the game.

I think the reason for this is that in OOTP, a steal automatically means a "take" sign for the hitter, which isn't something you'd usually do with two strikes. That's a flaw in itself. But we should at least be able to do a hit and run with two strikes, which is absolutely common.

Whether a guy swings and whether the runner takes off should be two separate issues.

Ideally, for each play, there should be a sort of checklist (a la Earl Weaver) of possible moves, and you should be able to turn each one on or off. Bunt, hit&run, run&hit, suicide squeeze: these woudl all be possible in this way. You could also choose to have a guy steal third without the other guy stealing second and so forth.

[rbux]

Originally posted by M's rule
I'm not convinced that speed is factored in when the AI decides whether or not a runner gets a good jump, because back when I used to try straight steals, the main reason I got frustrated and went to calling the h&r was that my A/A (speed/steal) and B/B guys were failing to get a good jump just as often as the C/B and C/C guys were.

At the risk of straying ot here, has anyone had much success with the H&R? Just finishing playing out my second season, and in over 380 games I don't think I've sucessfully executed it. Using low strike out/high average batter, A/A, A/B at first, I typically just advance the runner, never end up with corners. Might as well be bunting.

[ctorg]

Originally posted by rbux
At the risk of straying ot here, has anyone had much success with the H&R? Just finishing playing out my second season, and in over 380 games I don't think I've sucessfully executed it. Using low strike out/high average batter, A/A, A/B at first, I typically just advance the runner, never end up with corners. Might as well be bunting.

Hit and run success is way too low. It really isn't that often that a guy will swing and miss on a hit and run because, for one, it's usually a good contact hitter at bat, and for another, he's specifically trying to make contact above all else.

Again, I have to state my advocacy for the inclusion of the "run & hit" play.

Ideally, the checklist I mentioned above is what I'd like to see.

[draven085]

Originally posted by ctorg
Ideally, for each play, there should be a sort of checklist (a la Earl Weaver) of possible moves, and you should be able to turn each one on or off. Bunt, hit&run, run&hit, suicide squeeze: these woudl all be possible in this way. You could also choose to have a guy steal third without the other guy stealing second and so forth.

I like this idea as well. In game options will hopefully be improved for version 6.

[BleedDodgerBlue]

'Nother thing I'd like to see would be either a slider for 'take pitch with 3 balls' frequency, or an option in the PBP for 'take next pitch.'

I'm tired of guys popping up on 3-0 or 3-1 counts when I'd rather they sit tight because the pitcher has walked the last three guys he's faced.

[ctorg]

Originally posted by BleedDodgerBlue
'Nother thing I'd like to see would be either a slider for 'take pitch with 3 balls' frequency, or an option in the PBP for 'take next pitch.'

I'm tired of guys popping up on 3-0 or 3-1 counts when I'd rather they sit tight because the pitcher has walked the last three guys he's faced.

I think you'll only see this if there really is pitch-by-pitch in the next version.

[blackamus]

I have noticed that there seems to be a maximum (maybe soft cap is a better term) to the number of steals a player will be allowed based on his speed/steal rating. I can't say that I know exactly what this level is; but, now that I attempt steals much less frequently my players seem to have absurdly better success rates. There actually seems, as Steve suggested, to be limits and totals that the game attempts to reach (or prevent the player from reaching as the case may be) and I don't like the affect that has on the game. There should be enough depth in the player rating system to allow for exceptional players while still keeping the majority of players within a "realistic" level. The same goes for turning double plays. If I go out of my way to always have middle infielders with A or B range then I should be able to turn more double plays. I have no problem with there being some players in each league that perform above or even well above what would usually considered reasonable. There should be Robby Alomars, Vizquiels, Furcals, and Andruw Jones...players who are just amazingly good defenders.

[BleedDodgerBlue]

Originally posted by ctorg
I think you'll only see this if there really is pitch-by-pitch in the next version.

But why would it matter? If the game can be coded such that the hit-and-run and steal buttons are removed under certain circumstances, how hard could it be to code the game such that when you have a 3-0 or a 3-1 count, you instruct the batter to take the next pitch?

I'm not asking for a 'take pitch' button to be used at any time...simply when there's a 3-0 or 3-1 count.