Draftees getting wrecked in DSL.What am I doing wrong?

winningwithstyle · 11-23-2016, 12:57 PM

I haven't been able to figure out a winning formula for my DSL teams. For some reason, every pitcher on my DSL squads have ERAs from 7-16. All of my batters are hitting under .250 with low slugging and those teams. All of my recent draftees from the past 2 years are busting because they cannot develop in AZL/DSL and get absolutely wrecked there. What should I do with 18-19 y/o SPs with high star potential that have an 8-17.60 ERA? How about batters? Can anyone be gracious enough to give me some tips on how to strategize the team. I attached the strategy that I run in those leagues. Thank you for taking the time to read this

Padreman · 11-23-2016, 01:32 PM

One obvious step and I'll let the rest chime in better coaches with better ratings to help develope your young talent

RchW · 11-23-2016, 01:51 PM

Sounds more like a league setup issue than baseball strategy. Check league totals and associated modifiers. High ERA without high BA suggests walks DP and K are low allowing for more baserunners hence more scoring without high BA.

BigRed75 · 11-23-2016, 05:35 PM

Move your high-rated prospects out of the complex leagues.

Don't care about complex league stats.

Don't overthink low minors.

TuckerDuckson · 11-23-2016, 09:27 PM

They also play a lot less games in the DSL, AZL, and Rookie Leagues. So one or two bad days could skew their ERA to where it is 7+

sabrtoothtiger · 11-25-2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

Move your high-rated prospects out of the complex leagues.

Don't care about complex league stats.

Don't overthink low minors.

100%, don't think the results they are putting up in complex are indicative of their ability. Defenses are horrible, not a lot of home runs are hit.. its not unusual to see babips in high .300s

If you want to evaluate pitchers down there, look at BB:SO ratios and the bb/9 k/9. This is more indicative of true ability. Conversely, look at extra base hits and slugging percentages for hitters.

Once a guy is in A ball and still can't hit a lick... then you may have a Bubba Starling on your hands.

Lukas Berger · 11-25-2016, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TuckerDuckson

They also play a lot less games in the DSL, AZL, and Rookie Leagues. So one or two bad days could skew their ERA to where it is 7+

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabrtoothtiger

100%, don't think the results they are putting up in complex are indicative of their ability. Defenses are horrible, not a lot of home runs are hit.. its not unusual to see babips in high .300s

If you want to evaluate pitchers down there, look at BB:SO ratios and the bb/9 k/9. This is more indicative of true ability. Conversely, look at extra base hits and slugging percentages for hitters.

Once a guy is in A ball and still can't hit a lick... then you may have a Bubba Starling on your hands.

Right. Complexes, Summer Leagues, the stats couldn't matter less for the reasons both of you have mentioned and others as well.

That being said, if literally everyone has ERAs from 7-16 and are hitting under .250 with low slugging then it might not just be a complex issue, it might be an issue with the league modifiers.

So if you could attach a screenshot of your league modifiers, that would be a help in checking out whether there's a real issue or not.

NoOne · 11-25-2016, 12:50 PM

possible reasons assuming it's the setup: i'd look at how you have your minor leagues setup. think about using service time limits at the very least in your rookie leagues. if you have alot of minor leaguers with 5-10years experience in your rookie tiers, your freshly drafted players will not likely put up good stats. ltm/lt could mask this a bit, but if this is the problem, autocalculate will not fix this problem because the poorly playing high-potential players are simply not good enough relative to other players in the league. **** i think this inevitably happens during a real-to-fictional transition, in my experience. service time limits help, but you can see a "wave" each year creeping up your minor league (via wins). essentially the Real minors have a lot of middling quality players that fictioanlly created simply never results in. as you switch over, they replacement "filler" isn't as good as it once was... so as those players age and never make the mlb, your minors start improving each year as layers retire (i offer mil extensions but i don't spend time signing mil FA, so i don't re-sign those "types" even though it would improve my mil record the first ~7 years or so

think twice about roster limits -- definitely never use them at AAA... But, who cares if there are 50+ players in one of your rookie leagues, if it does not cause any real problems. this assumes you use "start potential over ability" for your minor leagues -- there's no reason not to. secondly, it's a far better alternative to having a bunch of underdeveloped prospects pushed to the next available level (depends on if you use roster limits above rookie - they could jump to AAA) because there is a 35man roster limit in your rookie league... which do you think has more ramifications? extra on the rookie or AAA team? those players won't develop in AAA and if your scout made a mistake you just lost a quality player (much worse than if it took them a year or 2 to crack a rookie lineup due to bad initial scouting ratings.

becareful of reacting to compulsions to a perception you don't thnk is right... compare the different results and you will see that roster limits are a really bad idea in most normal playing situations. 50 players in rookies doesn't cause any problems with playing time, if you use the potential>ability for lineups in the minors. the other way... there's nothing you can do to avoid the negative ramifications of bumping underdeveloped players above the level they should be in.

all rookie leagues are the same level as far as development is concerned. all A-ball leagues are the same level, except Short A is a distinct level. (just in case this isn;t understood) if they weren't, they'd have their own selection out of the Leage Level drop down list during creation or in edit league settings->League structure area. R -> SA - A - AA - AAA - no other levels... although you can name them whatever you want there are only 5 tiers of competition for standard minor leagues. (you could make a custom game and change default league levels of your various leagues, but that's not the same discussion)

don't look at minor league stats much... especially lower levels and 1-2 months or even 1 season worth of data. not only is the sample size too small to read into anything that they tell you, the players are changing constantly (which taints results), regardless of your choice of time between scouting reports. so, make decisions immediately after a scouting report for best results. pay your scout well, get good coaches*

good coaches - you essentially have to cheat to have any useful information... upto you on that. i'm not sure how "handling" players affects development, but i'd assume the "teach" ratings are more important in the minors. i'd suggest sticking to neutral foci unless you have a very specific player type you almost always draft (even if you think so, i'd suggest still not to do it). Rather, if you have duplicate levels, like 2 A's, then use the second A leauge for coaches with a special focus. send impotant prospects with those specific weaknesses to that team.

Use ratings and not overall/portential. use stats only to verify that your scout is accurate. check out my begginner guide, it has some basic X/100 ratings thresholds for each level of minor leagues... those estimated ratings values are generally bare minimums, but due to scouting inaccuracy you may not be able to follow them exactly.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: if their ratings continue to go up at a good rate, they are fine. use development reports and scouting history in profile. you can see general trends of current and potential ability of the prospect over time - very useful to understanding. in development reports you can quickly see that each scouting update they have a lot of plusses, and few minuses each report and consistently does so.

winningwithstyle · 11-27-2016, 07:44 PM

thank you for all the responses. My league does not use coaches or scouts so that is not the issue; I understand that most people assumed it was my coaching

NoOne · 11-28-2016, 03:55 AM

that stuff was just extra for better development.

2 choices to look into... talent distribution (specificalyl too much realtive to quality of that leagues league level) and league totals and modifiers... both were mentioned by multiple people.

talent distributions - i'd look into stats first, lol. but, do a quick glansce through various teams minors for the level and see if you have a bunch of older and more developed players eating up roster spces. in this instance, plaers that would normally be well-equipped to play at this league level will be very poor players.

LTMs: hit autocalc each year - it's the minors who cares if it's not realistic to do such a thing. as long as you don't have a bunch of overdeveloped players, players should be average when properly rated for that league level.

I mentioned using service time limits to combat overdeveloped players at lower tiers.

winningwithstyle · 12-01-2016, 02:48 AM

How would I know when a player is over developed for that level? What will happen to over developed players?

11-23-2016, 12:57 PM	#1
winningwithstyle Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18	Draftees getting wrecked in DSL.What am I doing wrong? I haven't been able to figure out a winning formula for my DSL teams. For some reason, every pitcher on my DSL squads have ERAs from 7-16. All of my batters are hitting under .250 with low slugging and those teams. All of my recent draftees from the past 2 years are busting because they cannot develop in AZL/DSL and get absolutely wrecked there. What should I do with 18-19 y/o SPs with high star potential that have an 8-17.60 ERA? How about batters? Can anyone be gracious enough to give me some tips on how to strategize the team. I attached the strategy that I run in those leagues. Thank you for taking the time to read this Attached Images

11-23-2016, 01:32 PM	#2
Padreman Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2013 Location: Tijuana, Baja California, Mexico (formally San Diego, CA.) Posts: 4,131	One obvious step and I'll let the rest chime in better coaches with better ratings to help develope your young talent __________________ Chargers= Despicable Traitors

11-23-2016, 01:51 PM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Sounds more like a league setup issue than baseball strategy. Check league totals and associated modifiers. High ERA without high BA suggests walks DP and K are low allowing for more baserunners hence more scoring without high BA. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

11-23-2016, 05:35 PM	#4
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,423	Move your high-rated prospects out of the complex leagues. Don't care about complex league stats. Don't overthink low minors. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

11-23-2016, 09:27 PM	#5
TuckerDuckson Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 446	They also play a lot less games in the DSL, AZL, and Rookie Leagues. So one or two bad days could skew their ERA to where it is 7+ __________________ Plays legit baseball now. My OOTP ratings are low. 2022 update: I'm two stars!

11-25-2016, 12:50 PM	#8
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	possible reasons assuming it's the setup: i'd look at how you have your minor leagues setup. think about using service time limits at the very least in your rookie leagues. if you have alot of minor leaguers with 5-10years experience in your rookie tiers, your freshly drafted players will not likely put up good stats. ltm/lt could mask this a bit, but if this is the problem, autocalculate will not fix this problem because the poorly playing high-potential players are simply not good enough relative to other players in the league. **** i think this inevitably happens during a real-to-fictional transition, in my experience. service time limits help, but you can see a "wave" each year creeping up your minor league (via wins). essentially the Real minors have a lot of middling quality players that fictioanlly created simply never results in. as you switch over, they replacement "filler" isn't as good as it once was... so as those players age and never make the mlb, your minors start improving each year as layers retire (i offer mil extensions but i don't spend time signing mil FA, so i don't re-sign those "types" even though it would improve my mil record the first ~7 years or so think twice about roster limits -- definitely never use them at AAA... But, who cares if there are 50+ players in one of your rookie leagues, if it does not cause any real problems. this assumes you use "start potential over ability" for your minor leagues -- there's no reason not to. secondly, it's a far better alternative to having a bunch of underdeveloped prospects pushed to the next available level (depends on if you use roster limits above rookie - they could jump to AAA) because there is a 35man roster limit in your rookie league... which do you think has more ramifications? extra on the rookie or AAA team? those players won't develop in AAA and if your scout made a mistake you just lost a quality player (much worse than if it took them a year or 2 to crack a rookie lineup due to bad initial scouting ratings. becareful of reacting to compulsions to a perception you don't thnk is right... compare the different results and you will see that roster limits are a really bad idea in most normal playing situations. 50 players in rookies doesn't cause any problems with playing time, if you use the potential>ability for lineups in the minors. the other way... there's nothing you can do to avoid the negative ramifications of bumping underdeveloped players above the level they should be in. all rookie leagues are the same level as far as development is concerned. all A-ball leagues are the same level, except Short A is a distinct level. (just in case this isn;t understood) if they weren't, they'd have their own selection out of the Leage Level drop down list during creation or in edit league settings->League structure area. R -> SA - A - AA - AAA - no other levels... although you can name them whatever you want there are only 5 tiers of competition for standard minor leagues. (you could make a custom game and change default league levels of your various leagues, but that's not the same discussion) don't look at minor league stats much... especially lower levels and 1-2 months or even 1 season worth of data. not only is the sample size too small to read into anything that they tell you, the players are changing constantly (which taints results), regardless of your choice of time between scouting reports. so, make decisions immediately after a scouting report for best results. pay your scout well, get good coaches* good coaches - you essentially have to cheat to have any useful information... upto you on that. i'm not sure how "handling" players affects development, but i'd assume the "teach" ratings are more important in the minors. i'd suggest sticking to neutral foci unless you have a very specific player type you almost always draft (even if you think so, i'd suggest still not to do it). Rather, if you have duplicate levels, like 2 A's, then use the second A leauge for coaches with a special focus. send impotant prospects with those specific weaknesses to that team. Use ratings and not overall/portential. use stats only to verify that your scout is accurate. check out my begginner guide, it has some basic X/100 ratings thresholds for each level of minor leagues... those estimated ratings values are generally bare minimums, but due to scouting inaccuracy you may not be able to follow them exactly. MOST IMPORTANTLY: if their ratings continue to go up at a good rate, they are fine. use development reports and scouting history in profile. you can see general trends of current and potential ability of the prospect over time - very useful to understanding. in development reports you can quickly see that each scouting update they have a lot of plusses, and few minuses each report and consistently does so. Last edited by NoOne; 11-25-2016 at 12:56 PM.

11-27-2016, 07:44 PM	#9
winningwithstyle Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18	thank you for all the responses. My league does not use coaches or scouts so that is not the issue; I understand that most people assumed it was my coaching

11-28-2016, 03:55 AM	#10
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	that stuff was just extra for better development. 2 choices to look into... talent distribution (specificalyl too much realtive to quality of that leagues league level) and league totals and modifiers... both were mentioned by multiple people. talent distributions - i'd look into stats first, lol. but, do a quick glansce through various teams minors for the level and see if you have a bunch of older and more developed players eating up roster spces. in this instance, plaers that would normally be well-equipped to play at this league level will be very poor players. LTMs: hit autocalc each year - it's the minors who cares if it's not realistic to do such a thing. as long as you don't have a bunch of overdeveloped players, players should be average when properly rated for that league level. I mentioned using service time limits to combat overdeveloped players at lower tiers.

12-01-2016, 02:48 AM	#11
winningwithstyle Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 18	How would I know when a player is over developed for that level? What will happen to over developed players?