Defense For Catchers, Thoughts?

TheBear650 · 10-30-2016, 01:07 PM

I believe this is my 7th version OOTP now, and still can't put a value of defense for catchers. With all other position players their defense is easily measured by ZR and also well reflected in WAR. However, when it comes to catchers the defensive metrics seem off to me, and same goes for calculating war, even more so on the defensive minded catchers. If I were to play a 80/80 fielding shortstop for 162, he would put up a nice War even with no contribution with the bat (2-3 war). The best defensive catchers in the league will put up almost no War (0-0.5) total with the same offense output as the shortstop. Ive also heard that the catchers value will be more seen in your pitchers ERAs, but ive had some very good team ERAs with poor defensive catchers. Please leave your input below!

RchW · 10-30-2016, 02:02 PM

I can't figure it out either. One thing is obvious, catchers are too good offensively in OOTP.

See screenshot sorted by WAR.

ThePretender · 10-30-2016, 02:46 PM

In your specific league C's are in a golden offensive era. It's not necessarily like that in all leagues. In fact, I rarely see more than 3-4 quality C's in a league.

RchW · 10-30-2016, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePretender

In your specific league C's are in a golden offensive era. It's not necessarily like that in all leagues. In fact, I rarely see more than 3-4 quality C's in a league.

I'm ok with it but I'd like OOTP to save defensive stats such that I can sort for them the next year (they are not available, why?) and I'd like dWAR recorded and/or something more definitive to separate out who is better defensively.

I sense that catcher defense is somewhat random.

SirMichaelJordan · 10-30-2016, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePretender

In your specific league C's are in a golden offensive era. It's not necessarily like that in all leagues. In fact, I rarely see more than 3-4 quality C's in a league.

Quality based on what though, OVR rating?

Depending on setup, there can be average catchers based on OVR but still end up leading most of the offensive categories. This have been my experience and far too often a team will sign another catcher for alot of money despite their backup catcher being one of the top offensive players on the team just because the catcher's OVR was better. The position gets oversaturated in future saves.

ThePretender · 10-30-2016, 07:14 PM

Quality based on a combination of ratings & production. I ignore ovr as it's useless.

RchW · 10-30-2016, 08:12 PM

Catchers in OOTP suffer from the same logic flaw as middle infielders. There are too many poor hit/poor field catchers and middle infielders. In real life the separation occurs early. If you are not a good enough hitter to either dominate (ignore defense) or start consistently then you must by definition be above average on defense. There is no other reason to exist.

See the attached quadrant. Q4 players have no reason to exist at the MLB level. IRL they get weeded out in college and the low minors. In OOTP they are all over the place. One can quibble about the definition of poor defense but I think it's easy to visualize the majority of backup IF and catchers as likely starters if they could hit and reasonable starters on good teams when injuries occur.

10-30-2016, 01:07 PM	#1
TheBear650 Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 17	Defense For Catchers, Thoughts? I believe this is my 7th version OOTP now, and still can't put a value of defense for catchers. With all other position players their defense is easily measured by ZR and also well reflected in WAR. However, when it comes to catchers the defensive metrics seem off to me, and same goes for calculating war, even more so on the defensive minded catchers. If I were to play a 80/80 fielding shortstop for 162, he would put up a nice War even with no contribution with the bat (2-3 war). The best defensive catchers in the league will put up almost no War (0-0.5) total with the same offense output as the shortstop. Ive also heard that the catchers value will be more seen in your pitchers ERAs, but ive had some very good team ERAs with poor defensive catchers. Please leave your input below!

10-30-2016, 02:02 PM	#2
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I can't figure it out either. One thing is obvious, catchers are too good offensively in OOTP. See screenshot sorted by WAR. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

10-30-2016, 08:12 PM	#7
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Catchers in OOTP suffer from the same logic flaw as middle infielders. There are too many poor hit/poor field catchers and middle infielders. In real life the separation occurs early. If you are not a good enough hitter to either dominate (ignore defense) or start consistently then you must by definition be above average on defense. There is no other reason to exist. See the attached quadrant. Q4 players have no reason to exist at the MLB level. IRL they get weeded out in college and the low minors. In OOTP they are all over the place. One can quibble about the definition of poor defense but I think it's easy to visualize the majority of backup IF and catchers as likely starters if they could hit and reasonable starters on good teams when injuries occur. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

10-30-2016, 02:46 PM	#3
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	In your specific league C's are in a golden offensive era. It's not necessarily like that in all leagues. In fact, I rarely see more than 3-4 quality C's in a league.

10-30-2016, 07:14 PM	#6
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	Quality based on a combination of ratings & production. I ignore ovr as it's useless.