Profile ratings don't agree with scouting

[dannibalcorpse]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I have given up on stars and play without them, and have switched to ratings relative to MLB. Have harped on the stars for years to no avail. For some reason or another people must think they make sense...they don't to me, and unless the system is changed, the next best thing you can do is turn them off. The truth is, I have been advocating a system where the overall rating is presented in deviations of 5 on a 20-80 scale.

This is pretty much why I switch all the ratings in the game to the 20-80 scale. I know it's basically putting a different skin on the same data but I think it adds a little more nuance to player evaluation.

That being said, the point is that scouting should just be one of the tools you use; I was playing earlier and was able to trade a minor leaguer with a 20 actual/21 potential for Neil Ramirez, who my scout had valued at 62/68. Guess who wound up pitching only 21 games over the next year+ with an ERA over 8, and who wound up being a fairly reliable 3-4 ERA reliever with a good K/9?

[endgame]

Originally Posted by hjrrockies

This is the issue I'm facing. I just want to know which one is my scout's 'actual' current opinion. Even if star ratings are not that useful, I'd just like a consistent answer.


On the topic of doing stars-turned-off playthoughs: How do you evaluate players overall? Do you have a system of "1 grade (5pts on the 20-80 scale) of contact is worth 2 grades of gap power", or something like that?

The stars on the player profile page will be the evaluation at that moment in time, best it generates it.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by endgame

The stars on the player profile page will be the evaluation at that moment in time, best it generates it.

Right..which is why I've never understood the point of scouting updates if you're getting the overall opinion in real time (dynamically) anyway. I wish you could hide this particular aspect of overall ratings.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Right..which is why I've never understood the point of scouting updates if you're getting the overall opinion in real time (dynamically) anyway. I wish you could hide this particular aspect of overall ratings.

Because it becomes part of the trending reports, particularly if you're keeping track of multiple reports. When you notice a player has, over the months, been losing his contact, he could be on the road to no return or at least provoke replacement thought. On the other hand, a player who over the course of three to four reports shows a slight bump in his power, and he's a young player, maybe take a look at the HC and see if that's his emphasis, and if it hints at effect, bring up another potential power hitter from AAA, etc.... I could go on and on......seriously.

Point is, here he is right now. Okay. How's he been doing overall in his development? Look at his reports and the trends. Did he recover and climb back up? Was it an injury? Was it a coach? Was it sheer gonna get it done? It's nothing if not inspirational, or let's say thought provoking and yet another tool. Now, up to now. Pretty straightforward, I think.

[Marsupilami]

stars are for suckers

[Painmantle]

I'm going to try to show why this phenomena happens. If a scouting report is published at the beginning of Spring Training, that information could be obsolete in a week or two, and most certainly wouldn't necessarily be as accurate one or more months down the road, especially for players that are very young and in periods of heavy growth. The players ratings change regularly, your scouts opinion changes regularly, but the report he wrote last month isn't going to change, he has to write a new report, and by the time he gets it finished, everything has changed yet again. As I have mentioned many times scouting is not an exact science. Scouting reports only change either once a month, once every two months or Season Start and end, those are your options in the settings. The default is bi-monthly (every two months, not twice a month) So your either getting 6, 3 or 2 scouting report updates, yet players ratings are changing constantly as is your scouts opinions
Here is s screen shot of OOTPOU for my HSBL League



While the ratings of players have changed, and my scouts opinions have changed, the scouting report hasn't changed at all in-game during this time. It is time dated material and is now old news. It would be more of a travesty if the ratings were the same in the given areas, because then you would truly not be getting ANY updated information until a new scouting report was issued. It's like the difference between reading a month old written scouting report and actually sitting down and talking to your scout.

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by Marsupilami

stars are for suckers

Then I'm a sucker. I really don't care what's "best", I care what's fun.

It's a game. Games are fun.

[hjrrockies]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Good explanation from PainMantle

Thanks for the help. I hadn't realized that the profile info was dynamic/more recent than the scouting report. I thought the profile would only update as often as the scouting happens. Looks like I ruined my most recent draft, then =).

[Painmantle]

I would also like to add, you can request a new scouting report on any player at any time, but your scout is only capable of doing one report per day. Just right click on any player on any roster list and "request scouting report"

In this picture, The Top profile (2 1/2* out of 4 1/2*) and middle report (2* out of 4*)are from the same day, the Stars do not coincide. The Bottom Profile is after requesting a new scouting report advancing the files one day, and mysteriously now the "Stars align" Given this fact, I'm thinking everything is working exactly how it should

[geoffmatt17]

I would still argue there's an issue. Here's an example, as I'm on the same day in-game as the most recent scouting report. There is NO reason why the stars on the May 1st report shouldn't be exactly the same as the stars on the profile considering it is May 1st!

Notice in-game date and scouting report date are the same at 3.5 stars.


Notice in-game date and profile page date are the same at 4.5 stars.

[cavebutter]

Agreed. I noticed the same thing in my league. The day of (and for at least the two weeks following) the release of the player development report, my players ratings are out of sync with the report. Not just stars, but all ratings listed in the report.

[Painmantle]

Originally Posted by geoffmatt17

I would still argue there's an issue. Here's an example, as I'm on the same day in-game as the most recent scouting report. There is NO reason why the stars on the May 1st report shouldn't be exactly the same as the stars on the profile considering it is May 1st!

Notice in-game date and scouting report date are the same at 3.5 stars.


Notice in-game date and profile page date are the same at 4.5 stars.

Those stars ARE NOT out of line, the scouting report is CURRENT RATINGS, the Player Card is POTENTIAL RATINGS

[Painmantle]

Originally Posted by cavebutter

Agreed. I noticed the same thing in my league. The day of (and for at least the two weeks following) the release of the player development report, my players ratings are out of sync with the report. Not just stars, but all ratings listed in the report.

and once again Players rating changes are dynamic, they can change daily, the only reason my previous example showed ratings changes weekly is because that league sims a week at a time, so OOTPOU only records them when I upload the files, the changes could have happened at any point during the week even immediately after the report is published on the same day.

The bottom line is there is nothing wrong with the system it works like it is supposed to (until Markus says it's broke, which he has always said it isn't broke in the past), but there are people who believe that it should work differently, if your one of those people, then there is nothing I can do or say that will make you believe that there is no problem.

If it's that much of an issue for anyone I can only recommend turning scouting off

[geoffmatt17]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Those stars ARE NOT out of line, the scouting report is CURRENT RATINGS, the Player Card is POTENTIAL RATINGS

That is a VERY interesting catch. Why? We play potential only in this (online) league! You may have just given me quite the unfair advantage going forward

My argument still stands that this does happen, however, I'm going to need to go get more picture proof

[Painmantle]

Originally Posted by geoffmatt17

That is a VERY interesting catch. Why? We play potential only in this (online) league! You may have just given me quite the unfair advantage going forward

My argument still stands that this does happen, however, I'm going to need to go get more picture proof

I don't need picture proof, I understand that it can happen, I'm saying it isn't a problem and it isn't broken. I've said this phrase literally 100's of times on this forum, "Scouting is not an exact science". If you can't look at 2 sets of stars or 2 sets of ratings that are somewhat different and make an educated guess about the value of the player, then I have no idea what to tell you. Cause basically every argument for the system needing fixed boils down to people wanting all the numbers/stars to always be the same. Ratings changes are dynamic

dynamic   (dī-nām'ĭk)   

1.Relating to energy or to objects in motion. Compare static. 


2.Relating to the study of dynamics. 


3.Characterized by continuous change or activity. 

[smythejd]

I have been playing OOTP for some time and I agree with slazer33. I find this apparent contradiction very annoying. I am not here to argue about it or even to discuss whether it is a valid error or not.

I am only to say to all who find this "thing" annoying, what I do as a work around. When I see this happening I just go to "Game setting" and click on "Run OSA & Human Scouts Rescout". This resets all ratings so that they are inline and the game becomes much more fun for me. And that is why I play this game.

[Griever20]

If I take anything away from this thread then that I actually SHOULD sent my scouts away to take a look at guys

As for anything else, even if they 'disagree' a bit, it's additional information. If it's 3.5* here, 4.5* there and 4* elsewhere, I have floor, ceiling and an eye on potential development in either direction. Often times, this is just standard deviation and the actual underlying ratings haven't even changed...

Else, do this:

Originally Posted by smythejd

I am only to say to all who find this "thing" annoying, what I do as a work around. When I see this happening I just go to "Game setting" and click on "Run OSA & Human Scouts Rescout". This resets all ratings so that they are inline and the game becomes much more fun for me. And that is why I play this game.

And be happy

[aewin]

Originally Posted by Hammercraft

I've noticed that looking at a player's stars in one window (trade, draft, roster, etc) won't necessarily match when you inspect the player directly, even if you're using the same ratings source and settings. I think that might be the issue. Not accuracy, but consistency between windows/views.

Yes. The player profile page rarely matches the relevant star rating on the scouting page (and it is not that the profile page is picking up an earlier out-of-date scout report). There are extreme examples (1 star vs 5 stars and vice versa), the odd ones that match and everything in between. Applies to current players and also to new draftees in the draft pool.

[PSUColonel]

Stars aren't realistic, and don't really work the way people would/should expect....I have them turned off, and simply don't use any form of overall rating, other than what the scouting summary says, and even with that, I DO NOT check "Overall ratings based on AI evaluation"

[aewin]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Stars aren't realistic, and don't really work the way people would/should expect....I have them turned off, and simply don't use any form of overall rating, other than what the scouting summary says, and even with that, I DO NOT check "Overall ratings based on AI evaluation"

That's an argument for removing the feature not for not fixing the feature.

If they accurately reflected what they are meant to (the scouting/OSA star rating) they would be a useful thing for quickly ordering and sorting on various screens.

Right now they just cause confusion because they don't reliably reflect either the scout or the OSA rating.