My 3D ballpark models

[silvam14]

Ok, re-did the outfield section and updated other pieces of the park. hope you like it

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by zappa1

Wow! That's great! To be your age and computer literate as you are with the backgrounds of Silvam's ballparks is awesome.

adion - I second that!!! Wow - 76? I had you pegged for MUCH younger - like in your 20s (not kidding!) Your background art is great! That you built computers back in the day is amazing. I always have marveled at the hardware guys.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by adion

Where are you getting your weather info. I will have a look at the weather events and fool around with the probability thing and see what I come up with if you don't mind.

PS: You are just a kid. I will be 76 in November!

76 - awesome!! May you live and be well to enjoy many more decades in EXCELLENT health in mind, body and spirit!

The weather site I'm using is one of them you had linked in a previous post.

Travel Weather Averages (Weatherbase)

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by adion

I built my first computer back in the late 70's/early 80's and learned to program. I was an electronics tech in the USMC and after I got out and until I moved up the mgmt ladder. I have also had an interest in that kind of technology. Most of the nitty gritty I don't understand completely any more as I was trained and worked at the component level, e.g. resistors, capacitors, actual wires, etc. Now it is all stamped out of mythology!

Thanks for your nice comments.

A former Marine? May I be so bold as to humbly thank you for your service to our country. My father (may peace be upon him) was a WWII vet (Army - he saw action in Europe - he was in the second wave that came in AFTER D-Day - and he later fought in the Battle of the Bulge - and took part in the breaking of the siege of Bastogne) and two of my cousins served in the Marines - and from as far back as I can remember, it was just part of the standard load set growing up to greatly appreciate the sacrifices, dedication and bravery of our service personnel and to thank any and all who have donned or still wear the uniform of our armed forces.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Ok, re-did the outfield section and updated other pieces of the park. hope you like it

"We now return to our regularly scheduled programming... already in progress"

[adion]

Was you Dad with Patton? Now back to weather. I tried to refine my calculation by determining the percentage of a day the game took. Records show that average time of a game between 1948 and 1955 was two and half hours or 150 minutes. Since there are 1440 minutes in a day that come out to 10.42% of day that game takes up. So, I took that times the average % of precipitation probability for the baseball months in Cleveland. Interestingly, the results pretty much mirror the numbers used for Cleveland in the game. I don't know how historical or mathematically correct that method is but it is interesting to me that it is effectively the same as used in the game. I did try it for the 1920s when the games were significantly shorter and the % of rain probably did decease which seems to me to make sense as it rarely rains all day and all night. I will try some different location and see what happens.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by adion

Was you Dad with Patton? Now back to weather. I tried to refine my calculation by determining the percentage of a day the game took. Records show that average time of a game between 1948 and 1955 was two and half hours or 150 minutes. Since there are 1440 minutes in a day that come out to 10.42% of day that game takes up. So, I took that times the average % of precipitation probability for the baseball months in Cleveland. Interestingly, the results pretty much mirror the numbers used for Cleveland in the game. I don't know how historical or mathematically correct that method is but it is interesting to me that it is effectively the same as used in the game. I did try it for the 1920s when the games were significantly shorter and the % of rain probably did decease which seems to me to make sense as it rarely rains all day and all night. I will try some different location and see what happens.

Hmmm... that's a VERY interesting look at the weather. And since it seems to mirror that which is in the game, perhaps that's more or less the way the game is handling precipitation now.

Does this account for the fact that the 'window of time' in which baseball is played is a bit larger than the window of time for an actual game? Meaning - there are early afternoon games, late afternoon games, evening games and in some cases to accomodate TV games that start in the 8 o'clock local hour. So it's theoretically possible for there to be close to a 12-hour window in which a baseball game COULD be scheduled and played.

Regarding weather breakout - I really do think the weather system in the game could stand some beefing up - and really give us a better representation of the types of weather that impact baseball. There is a world of difference between a long-duration rain even that causes a game to be called simply because the field will be too soggy and the hour of night would be too late to continue vs a quick hitting thunderstorm that floods the field due to torrential downpours, thus still resulting in the game being called because the field is unplayable.

It may seem like nitpicking to some - but to me it's vital to improving the realism of how the game is played. Ditto with sky conditions. Ditto with wind. There's enough really good climatological data available to pull this off and make it happen.

My Dad served under Montgomery - he often told the story (and how many of these 'untold' and 'unknown' stories are there that never got any press but were integral to turning the tide of the war - my Dad was the first guy from Montgomery's side to arrive at Bastogne and link up with the first guy from Patton's side. He often said he'd wished (years later) they'd had a camera with them because they would have been famous. Either way - he had the satisfaction of knowing he did his job, fought bravely and served his country with pride.

He said he remembered seeing Patton once, sometime in 1945 not long before Berlin fell. And regarding Berlin he was beyond angry that the U.S. (and British) forces were given orders to halt just outside the city so that the Red Army could actually take Berlin. He said none of the guys could understand why their advance was stopped from high command - while the Red Army was given carte blanche to go in and take Berlin. He kvetched about that easily for 50 years afterwards - lol.

[adion]

I hope your Dad was involved with Market Garden, a Monty fiasco. Both Monty and Patton had big egos but, in my opinion, I think Patton was the better general. Having said that, your Dad was/is a hero in my eyes. It is absolutely amazing what these young people accomplished. The freed millions of people and did it with courage not iPhones! The Red Army getting in to Berlin first was all politics. Was your Dad British? I lived in GB for almost 7 years working for ITT. I loved it. Almost as much as Greece. Neither country is the same any more. Of course, neither are we. Back to the weather channel, I made a spreadsheet and did the calcualtion for NY, Brooklyn and Boston. Again, very close to what is in OOTP. Only a 1 % difference in a couple of months and that may be to numerical rounding in EXCEL. I think my process is not worth the time and effort as it is essentially has the same percentage as the game. I think your idea of trying to more closely associate weather conditions with the parks in the game is good. However, I think trying to do it is a micro way, i.e. daily conditions, time frames, etc., would be a tedious endeavour and not likely to be undertaken by the OOTP team. If someone like you did a mod for this, I am not sure how it could be incorporated in the each park.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by adion

I hope your Dad was involved with Market Garden, a Monty fiasco. Both Monty and Patton had big egos but, in my opinion, I think Patton was the better general. Having said that, your Dad was/is a hero in my eyes. It is absolutely amazing what these young people accomplished. The freed millions of people and did it with courage not iPhones! The Red Army getting in to Berlin first was all politics. Was your Dad British? I lived in GB for almost 7 years working for ITT. I loved it. Almost as much as Greece. Neither country is the same any more. Of course, neither are we. Back to the weather channel, I made a spreadsheet and did the calcualtion for NY, Brooklyn and Boston. Again, very close to what is in OOTP. Only a 1 % difference in a couple of months and that may be to numerical rounding in EXCEL. I think my process is not worth the time and effort as it is essentially has the same percentage as the game. I think your idea of trying to more closely associate weather conditions with the parks in the game is good. However, I think trying to do it is a micro way, i.e. daily conditions, time frames, etc., would be a tedious endeavour and not likely to be undertaken by the OOTP team. If someone like you did a mod for this, I am not sure how it could be incorporated in the each park.

A huge thank you on behalf of my Dad, may peace be upon him. Were he still with us, he would have turned 94 this past July! I loved his war stories and he had many many to tell. Hearing what you said of him - he would have been extremely honored knowing you were a Marine. Even though he was U.S. Army (he was born outside of Detroit) - he had a love for the Marines and was very proud of his nephews who served in the Corps. Unquestionably, he was always - is now - and will always be - my hero.

Here's a story for you - and it is particularly poignant given that my family heritage is Jewish from Polish and Hungarian communities - Dad always said the toughest part of serving in WWII was not getting shot at a bazillion times, or getting caught in a firefight (and he said it was a miracle that he and the Lieutenant who was with him somehow crawled out alive), or having his jeep destroyed by mortar fire (he had gotten out of the jeep to go behind a tree to relieve himself - and within about 20 seconds or so - BOOOOM!!!!), or almost having another jeep destroyed (with him driving at breakneck speed) when the gunner of a Panzer swung the turret around and opened fire and thankfully just missed thanks to a dip in the road (he said he HEARD the sound of the shell as it flew over him - the dip in the road saved his life)... none of that....

The toughest thing for him was liberating the concentration and death camps. I can't remember specifically which camps he helped liberate - but he had flames coming out of his eyes any time he talked about it, which wasn't very often. He said that EVERY man in their unit - every one to a man - that they ALL knew why they were there when they encountered the camps. He said they all - as one - took upon themselves the firm resolve to put a stop to what was happening if it was the last thing they did. He said it didn't matter what religion, color, creed, background, ethnicity, etc. - every single man had what he called a burning rage inside them after seeing the camps. They understood why they were there.

Interestingly - I did some research 15 or 20 years ago and discovered that unbeknown to us - we lost a (very likely) relative (same family name and she came from the same region of Hungary that my grandfather came from) in Auschwitz. We never knew. Go figure! It was never talked about when I was growing up.

BTW - I agree wholeheartedly - Patton was a far superior general. Arguably the greatest general in U.S. history. Dad lamented that he didn't serve under Patton - said he would have loved to have served in his forces. Even though he only saw him once in person (and didn't meet him - only saw him) - he said of him - "General Patton ... now THAT was a general!"

My favorite Patton story (and I think there are multiple variations of it so details may differ) - Patton was advancing on a specific German stronghold and wired Ike that he was about to attack to take the position. Ike wired back with order to stand down and not advance to attack - too risky for casualties - saying "will require four days to take". Patton - after having taken the German stronghold, wired Ike back - "have taken the position in less than two days - do you want me to give it back?"

Ok - now - onto weather - lol

Agreed - it would likely be overly tedious for the OOTP developers to implement a weather system in, as you said, a micro way. However - what I'm trying to do is to USE that micro level of detail of daily records as a means of racking up to a total percentage that would be accurate for a given location - AND - would help the OOTP folks beef up the weather by offering more TYPES of weather. Again, rain right now is simply.... rain. There's no differentiation between light rain - a long-duration rain event - a heavy thunderstorm - a quick-hitter... all of which can impact play. I'm looking for the weather system to be fleshed out more. Make it deeper - richer. Right now is still FEELS (for lack of a better way) .. 'cosmetic' (to me at least). I would like to see the weather more impactful and more varied. If the game is capable of transitioning from cloudy to rain - then it should certainly be capable of transitioning from rain back to cloudy - or - clear - cloudy - thunderstorm - rain - then clear again.

And right now - it's pretty close to 100% of the time - if a game starts off cloudy - at some point - it rains. That does NOT happen like that - 100% of the time - in real life! Early season games, especially in the northern US, can be played in their entirety under a heavy overcast - without a single drop of rain falling.

And down south - just ask the folks in Atlanta or Dallas about those quick-hitting thunderstorms that come rolling in during the late afternoon or early evening from May through September. It can be clear blue skies at game time - and pouring with rain and hail by the sixth inning.

Would LOVE to see that in the game.

I'll be interested to see how the numbers I'm compiling rack up.

[adion]

Your Dad is a hero for all of us.

I noticed when messing around with the weather factors for parks that some parks that have roofs that close had rain and wind factors more than zero. That seems odd to me.

[Scott Vibert]

I think at least initially, that was the driver between when they would close the roof on that park, and allowing the wind to impact things when the roof was open. (You'd see the "Roof Closed" notation for days that would have otherwise run into rain impact)

[adion]

It would seem to me that in a place like Phoenix that has some very high winds, that roof would be closed during those periods. Also, since like the Diamondbacks, a lot of parks have high sides. So, it is not clear to me how the general wind conditions would impact the wind conditions inside the park, e.g. from some directions the outside wind condition could cause a different condition inside the park, e.g. circular rotation of wind or no wind at all.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by adion

Your Dad is a hero for all of us.

I noticed when messing around with the weather factors for parks that some parks that have roofs that close had rain and wind factors more than zero. That seems odd to me.

Wind factors would still apply to parks with retractable roofs even though the park design tends to make for higher walls - still if the roof is open, there is wind inside the park.

Rain makes sense as well - although I'm sure that in many places where there is a forecast of rain the roof is simply closed from before game time and may not open at all whether or not rain falls - there are plenty of cases when a surprise - and perhaps fast moving - shower or storm moves in and rain falls while the roof is being closed.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by adion

It would seem to me that in a place like Phoenix that has some very high winds, that roof would be closed during those periods. Also, since like the Diamondbacks, a lot of parks have high sides. So, it is not clear to me how the general wind conditions would impact the wind conditions inside the park, e.g. from some directions the outside wind condition could cause a different condition inside the park, e.g. circular rotation of wind or no wind at all.

Depends on the design of the park. Some parks have open 'windows' that allow the air currents to come in and through the park even when the roof is closed. Miller Park is an excellent example - I've been there for quite a few Brewers games since it was built - and even with the roof closed, there is still a breeze felt in the park. It has quite a few places that are essentially wide open - so the air currents do flow through the park pretty nicely. Recall the year the All Star Game was in Milwaukee after Miller Park opened - the Home Run Derby was played while a severe thunderstorm was raging outside, so the roof was closed - and Sammy Sosa crushed several home run shots completely out of the park through the open sides (the commentators were going NUTS because - even with the roof closed - he was sending balls out of the park)...

So that would make sense.

[adion]

In regard to rain and roofs, how can a probably of rain for those parks be calculated to any degree of accuracy with the variables of type, duration, start/stop of rain, how long it takes to close the roof, etc. Phoenix for instance has monsoons every year in the July/August time frame. I believe that during those times if there is any forecast of rain during that period that they would close the roof before game time because monsoon rains are heavy and unpredictable as to where they deliver the rain. So, in my humble opinion have a 2% chance of rain in August for the stadium is unrealistic.

[silvam14]

Adion, Lou Gehrig,

Any chance you can move this discussion about weather to a separate thread? I love the discussion and think it's important, but a thread on the general forum could illicit more responses and ideas.

I want this thread to display the various parks and I feel like the last few are lost due to the lengthy discussion.

Not trying to be a jerk. Just think it would be better off in its own thread.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[adion]

You are correct. Sorry.

[Erosa]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Ok, re-did the outfield section and updated other pieces of the park. hope you like it

Silvam,

Great job on Petco! The immersion factor now is amazing.

I'm attaching pics from Busch when it first opened in 1966 through 1969 when it had the brown/greyish tone. If you ever get a chance to touch up the Busch II you provided earlier this year, can you give us a this version from the 60's?

Thanks again for all you do.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by silvam14

Adion, Lou Gehrig,

Any chance you can move this discussion about weather to a separate thread? I love the discussion and think it's important, but a thread on the general forum could illicit more responses and ideas.

I want this thread to display the various parks and I feel like the last few are lost due to the lengthy discussion.

Not trying to be a jerk. Just think it would be better off in its own thread.

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was actually thinking along those lines as well - that we'd be better served jumping over to our own weather thread. Not joking but the thought hit me of "sheesh - we've just now TOTALLY hi-jacked this thread!"...

Hey adion - let's mosey over to our own weather observation station and check back in here periodically to grab new awesome ballparks when Silvam posts 'em.

Silvam - no apologies necessary. And, when you have some time, I actually have a request for a minor-league ballpark from my home town.

[LouGerig_IronHorse]

Originally Posted by Erosa

Silvam,

Great job on Petco! The immersion factor now is amazing.

I'm attaching pics from Busch when it first opened in 1966 through 1969 when it had the brown/greyish tone. If you ever get a chance to touch up the Busch II you provided earlier this year, can you give us a this version from the 60's?

Thanks again for all you do.

These are awesome pics. I love the shots of the ballparks from the '60s when they first opened. They changed so many times over the years, it's hard to recall what they were originally like. And this makes me feel old but most of 'em are gone now. Holy Moses!