OOTP 17 Update #8 HOTFIX, Version 17.10.67 Available!

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

We do apologize for the problems with the patches. You can be sure to see some changes for the patch-cycles next year, to ensure that things get a much more thorough testing done internally before being released to the public, whether in some sort of public beta or however else we decide to do it.

Look. At least there ARE patches. And you folks try hard to make the community happy. Just do your best.

One suggestion that I have made before: You may want to stop and consider whether to release a new feature, even a minor one, on a patch that you are trying to label as "final." I have seen that happen a few times now whereby the new feature causes problems in itself and elsewhere.

If you are trying to tie things up at some point, best to just do so and not inadvertently introduce more bugs.

[craftdr]

Been reading the thread and there is a lot of good to be found but one thing I wanted to add is a little insight into the testing process. First off, I understand the frustration people feel at things not always being quite right but I've worked in software testing for over 10 years now and unfortunately not all bugs can be caught prior to release. Also taking into account the number of options this game has, it would be a monumental task to test everything and ever get anything to the consumer.

I spent almost 8 months testing a project recently with a team of 5 other quality assurance testers, 6 developers, and a project manager and when we moved the project out, there were still issues identified that we did not come across in testing. My team was very disappointed and frustrated as we all take a great deal of pride in delivering a quality product as I'm sure OOTP is. A large reason for that is no matter how much time and effort a small group puts into testing, once it reaches production, there will always be things that testers did/can not think of when writing and executing test plans due to the much larger population of users and scenarios.

I am in no way trying to diminish anybody's frustration as I've had a forced medical summer off and needed to find something else to do while things were being stabilized. I am just trying to give a little perspective on how not everything can be caught in testing. Thankfully, the OOTP team is very quick about fixing known issues. In my real life experience, our users have had to live with the issues for a while because due to the size of the company, we cannot release whenever we want but only during certain windows.

I'm sure most of you don't care about what I wrote but thought maybe a little real life perspective would help a bit.

[clamel]

You surely are correct. No product with 100% correct code can be realeased. So very nice to get many patches.
However what is truly sad is that if 6-7 problems have benn fixed a certain couple of new problems pops up. Things that truly worked perfectly in the previous patch.
The code is surely intermixed and messing with one thing can spin-off a new bug that wasn't in the pevious patch.
That's when I think the whole process feels to get out of hand.
The oversight that if you mess with one area of the coding ALL things that have anything to do with this should be tested.

It's sad to have a house with a bad front-window. Getting it fixed and finding out the front door has been damaged in the process. A door that worked fine before.
It's a bitch to test and fix, but perhaps the team have to look carefully on how they test a newly fixed bug. The spinn-off new bugs are what concerns me the most.
I know it's very hard getting it right and knowing that the blokes messing with it do their best is nice to know.

It's a very good game that maybe starting to get too good and complicated to handle for the team of programmers.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by David Watts

This why would anyone purchase from Steam thing keeps coming up, so I thought I would finally respond. When I purchase OOTP it takes 3-4 hours for the initial download to finish( I have crappy AT&T DSL for internet). Now, if I purchase from OOTP, patches are going to for the most part take that same 3-4 hours. Of course, that's if they don't crap out after 2 hours forcing me to start all over again. With Steam, the initial download still takes 3-4 hours, but patches download faster. I've also never once had a Steam download stop working halfway finished.

I also love the fact that I have my games forever, without having to keep track of a license.

what you need is a download manager... i think i just puked in my mouth a little bit...

all jokes aside, in your situation it makes a ton of sense. find one that allows you to continue incomplete downloads. that should help you out alot. then, some things below might be worth looking into to improve your situation.


if you have any real-time AV / spyware / malware, or worse more than one running, turn all that crap off if you don't have a habit of clicking those "update adobe" pop-ups and similar stuff, stupid with your email, or go to incredibly malicious porn sites, lol. i haven't had a virus on this pc, ever. my last one got one once, and it was my dumb-@$$ fault. a little common-sense goes a long way. 1 severely malicious virus in more than a decade at least... and it was my fault. you still have to run a program like spybot s&d and/or a virus scan every month or two. (i prefer the old one, haven't used the new 2.x+). just get one that is mostly standalone and only runs when you load it up.

there may be some other settings to look into with windows and such. maybe a few google searches could be fruitful, too. turn of as many background services dedicated to updating 3rd party software... just click the update button yourself when you load them up (non-win stuff)

att dsl + win7 +
optimization
improve speed
etc..

look for an article with instructions, not a program that 'streamlines' things.. those are a waste of your time or malicious.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Benchmark

Let me first say, I don't have steam and never would use steam.

Now, I find it extremely hilarious that you blame Steam for the Developers problem.

whether windows, macos, mozilla firefox or ootp, it is not smart to update immediately. a prototypical "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice shame on me." situation.

Since this is known, the fact Steam does not allow some control is most definitely steam's fault and part of the problem end-users are experiencing with ootp... which they could avoid if they didn't buy through steam... (you don't own steam, you either use it or do not use it).

It would be a good idea to do a public beta, as you said, but the entire situation was avoidable... and only first-time users are exempt from blame. as you said, this is not the first time. you know this happens on occasion.

...

just step through what occured with the information the person/entity knew at that moment and given motivations and it's easy to see who is at fault and what was avoidable with a modicom of forethought. ignorance is only an excuse in instances of extreme technical knowledge or similar situation.

i blame myself for updating.. each patch is a small change... not updating isn't a big deal. certainly not missing out on anything by waiting and being a little patient... in fact Exactly the same as waiting for a public beta, lol. the guy still on 16.0.46(?) patch is the smart one, here.

[icedragon15]

Originally Posted by NoOne

rich and i have a little history, so i think what i am about to say is hilariously ironic.

he's just pointing out a hypocrisy. the point is the peanut gallery, myself and rich included, are a bunch of lunatics from ootpd's point of view because out of X-number of people a certain percentage are going to be irrational about every single thing/event that occurs related to ootp development and patches

(that's probably one of their biggest frustration with public relations... biting their tongue in these forums!)

=> relax, it will all be over soon.

the people with steam should be upset with steam. those without steam and don't want to help test a patch should only blame themselves for downloading, immediately.

I thought i waited long enough. then posts about the mil's being dropped popped up.. by coincidence i've not been playing for a bit, lol. quite fortuitous for me.

u mean valve steam is just platform not company which steam is just platform

[wsenkow]

Originally Posted by NoOne

Since this is known, the fact Steam does not allow some control is most definitely steam's fault and part of the problem end-users are experiencing with ootp... which they could avoid if they didn't buy through steam... (you don't own steam, you either use it or do not use it).

All Steam's fault huh? Did you go to the beginning of this thread? Probably not because you're a company man. OOTP STILL has this crappy patch available for downloading. And in bold bright color this phrase...."We highly recommend to install this update!!" That's right, recommending a crappy patch for other users to enjoy. They just can't go wrong when there are All-Star company men such as yourself who go out of their way to point their hypocritical finger at all others but themselves.

Great PR. You'll go a long ways.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by NoOne

what you need is a download manager... i think i just puked in my mouth a little bit...

all jokes aside, in your situation it makes a ton of sense. find one that allows you to continue incomplete downloads. that should help you out alot. then, some things below might be worth looking into to improve your situation.


if you have any real-time AV / spyware / malware, or worse more than one running, turn all that crap off if you don't have a habit of clicking those "update adobe" pop-ups and similar stuff, stupid with your email, or go to incredibly malicious porn sites, lol. i haven't had a virus on this pc, ever. my last one got one once, and it was my dumb-@$$ fault. a little common-sense goes a long way. 1 severely malicious virus in more than a decade at least... and it was my fault. you still have to run a program like spybot s&d and/or a virus scan every month or two. (i prefer the old one, haven't used the new 2.x+). just get one that is mostly standalone and only runs when you load it up.

there may be some other settings to look into with windows and such. maybe a few google searches could be fruitful, too. turn of as many background services dedicated to updating 3rd party software... just click the update button yourself when you load them up (non-win stuff)

att dsl + win7 +
optimization
improve speed
etc..

look for an article with instructions, not a program that 'streamlines' things.. those are a waste of your time or malicious.

I will keep that in mind, especially if I ever become a huge gamer and have the need to download tons of stuff. I'm 52, so I doubt that's going to happen. OOTP is for the most part the only game I play. If it continues to be offered on Steam, that's where I'm going to purchase it. It it's not broken, why fix it.

[Benchmark]

Originally Posted by NoOne

whether windows, macos, mozilla firefox or ootp, it is not smart to update immediately. a prototypical "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice shame on me." situation.

Since this is known, the fact Steam does not allow some control is most definitely steam's fault and part of the problem end-users are experiencing with ootp... which they could avoid if they didn't buy through steam... (you don't own steam, you either use it or do not use it).

It would be a good idea to do a public beta, as you said, but the entire situation was avoidable... and only first-time users are exempt from blame. as you said, this is not the first time. you know this happens on occasion.

...

just step through what occured with the information the person/entity knew at that moment and given motivations and it's easy to see who is at fault and what was avoidable with a modicom of forethought. ignorance is only an excuse in instances of extreme technical knowledge or similar situation.

i blame myself for updating.. each patch is a small change... not updating isn't a big deal. certainly not missing out on anything by waiting and being a little patient... in fact Exactly the same as waiting for a public beta, lol. the guy still on 16.0.46(?) patch is the smart one, here.

First, let me start off by thanking Matt for his response and OOTP will look into this for the future.

Now, if I were Matt and Markus running this business, I would probably ask you to stop blaming the customer's and OOTP Partners for a mistake that OOTP knows it caused. You guys defending this just keeps fueling this conversation and I'm sure they would like to put it to bed.

Software bugs happen and we all agree to that. But you are suggesting that we the customer's are ignorant and the OOTP Partners have failed OOTP for not supplying a revert button. All the Steam user's like David should just stop buying OOTP because they use Steam and don't want to purchase direct. Not everyone is as computer savvy as you and I. That is one of the best things about OOTP you can be 8 or 80 it doesn't matter. But you thinking all ages are computer savvy is a big mistake. Congratulations, you would make a fine Marketing guy for OOTP.

Matt has responded and you should leave it at that like the rest of us. Telling us software bugs happen, we all know. Still trying to convince people software bugs are what to expect from OOTP all the time is a little insulting to both Markus and Matt. They will review their procedures and that is all we can ask for. Now follow their lead and leave the Blame Game alone.

[Habsfan18]

Haven't been reading every post, so forgive me if I'm missing a bunch of posts about this, but is it safe to install this latest patch yet? Or do issues still remain?

I'm still on the patch from a month or two ago, before the latest one and the hotfix.

[pbreen]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Haven't been reading every post, so forgive me if I'm missing a bunch of posts about this, but is it safe to install this latest patch yet? Or do issues still remain?

I'm still on the patch from a month or two ago, before the latest one and the hotfix.

Stay on your patch and count your blessings.

[pbreen]

Originally Posted by NoOne

Since this is known, the fact Steam does not allow some control is most definitely steam's fault and part of the problem end-users are experiencing with ootp... which they could avoid if they didn't buy through steam... (you don't own steam, you either use it or do not use it).

You're right, it is my fault the game I paid for in March has been inoperable for 2 weeks now, and probably won't be playable for another month or so. I should have known that buying from Steam was stupid because they are an evil corporation, as opposed to OOTPD who is always the good guy. OOTPD could allow Steam to do reverts in "beta" forms, but they don't (other games do, so it is do-able). Do not blame me, the consumer, for OOTPD's problems. They released a bug knowing that there would be problems, because like everyone already said, "every bug has problems". The blame cannot fall upon Steam users, your insinuation that we should've known better is actually pathetic. What, we should've have known better than to trust that a pretty significant company would not release a game-breaking bug and leave us in the dark with it? My bad, I had too much faith I guess.

This will not motivate me to buy directly in the future, it will more likely cause me not to purchase the upcoming OOTP games and stick to OOTP 16 because at least I know that works. Sorry I am not interested in buying directly. I realize now that the sentiment swirling around Steam-users is that any bugs that make something I purchased unplayable is clearly just me getting what I deserve since I chose to purchase the game via Steam. Damn those Steam-users, after all.

Save it.

[Silfir]

Is this thread now just going to be people unpleasant towards each other until the next hotfix...?

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by Silfir

Is this thread now just going to be people unpleasant towards each other until the next hotfix...?

i, personally, think this mule has been beaten enough. Guess i'm lucky - the way i play the game (simming) is allowing me to play normally with this patch. Maybe this thread can get back to specific issues rather than trashing the revolving bad guys?

[risp2out]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Haven't been reading every post, so forgive me if I'm missing a bunch of posts about this, but is it safe to install this latest patch yet? Or do issues still remain?

I'm still on the patch from a month or two ago, before the latest one and the hotfix.

I have the new patch and with one exception, everything is fine for me. (The exception is that if you are playing historical with real minors during the era prior to every team having a minor league affiliate, then you need to turn off the Rule 5 draft.) I'm not sure what other problems people are still seeing, but I've played without a hitch other than that one little glitch.

[LunchBox]

Originally Posted by risp2out

I have the new patch and with one exception, everything is fine for me. (The exception is that if you are playing historical with real minors during the era prior to every team having a minor league affiliate, then you need to turn off the Rule 5 draft.) I'm not sure what other problems people are still seeing, but I've played without a hitch other than that one little glitch.

Same here, I actually started a separate game after this patch, and I've had no issues, with the exception of a cosmetic bug that causes finances to show a $700 Million plus loss in leagues with 24 or less active roster size and secondary rosters disabled... but its only cosmetic, all teams in those leagues have normal finances.

[wsenkow]

Originally Posted by pbreen

You're right, it is my fault the game I paid for in March has been inoperable for 2 weeks now, and probably won't be playable for another month or so. I should have known that buying from Steam was stupid because they are an evil corporation, as opposed to OOTPD who is always the good guy

I agree totally. I uninstalled all this and a previous version of Ootp from my Steam library, did a disc clean up, defraged the hard drive, and will not having anything more to do with this franchise. It is not worth the headache putting up with company Napoleons who get their rocks off dividing the users into groups of right and wrong, or playing the "you deserve the issues you have" card. I enjoyed fully being a part of the Ootp community, until this thread came about.

This is all on you Rchw, and your siamese twin.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Haven't been reading every post, so forgive me if I'm missing a bunch of posts about this, but is it safe to install this latest patch yet? Or do issues still remain?

I'm still on the patch from a month or two ago, before the latest one and the hotfix.

I've installed it.. so far, so good.

[Hfthomp]

Just installed this patch tonight and started a new career using the MLB 2016 quick start. Free agent demands seem to be messed up now. I've just started the first season and when I go to the free agent screen it shows demands for the top guys to be in the one million or so range. When you click on the player (Mark Burhle for example) and try and offer them a contract, now they demand 13 million or other crazy numbers. Anyone else seeing this? #freedotem

Update in my league, on the overall free agent screen, Buehrle showed a demand of 1,340,000. He just signed for 1 year at 18 million. That seems odd to me.

[Silfir]

Originally Posted by risp2out

I have the new patch and with one exception, everything is fine for me. (The exception is that if you are playing historical with real minors during the era prior to every team having a minor league affiliate, then you need to turn off the Rule 5 draft.) I'm not sure what other problems people are still seeing, but I've played without a hitch other than that one little glitch.

Have you tried turning on commissioner mode, tanking your cash until you no longer have money for free agents, and then shopping people around? The game won't consider any trades if I do it, even ones that are financially beneficial or neutral.

I'm asking because it would be very useful to know if this issue is isolated to a few installs or if it's universal. So far all people who've reported the issue who've gotten back to me after I asked for their budget situation have confirmed that they had been in the red at the time.

EDIT: A fresh install in another PC (I should have tried this before) still had this issue.

Make an MLB Quickstart save right now, shop around, say, Ender Inciarte, take note of the minor leaguers or leage minimum players offered to you, sim for a day (important to get his shopping results out of your cache), lower your budget by 40 million until you have "None" showing in Available Money for Free Agents in the front office, and shop Ender Inciarte again. Getting any takers?

This isn't going to affect everyone, because a) not everyone plays GM mode, b) it won't occur unless you have awful payroll management and have literally zero money for free agents, and c) you may not suspect anything is wrong with Shop a Player at first and just do trades manually instead, which work just fine.