OOTP 17 Update #8 HOTFIX, Version 17.10.67 Available! - Page 6

anthonywvalentine · 08-15-2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBarrett

I'm also now noticing you can't place a player in the starting lineup AND as a backup to another position. (E.g. Starting LF as the backup CF, or starting 2B as a backup SS.)

This worked fine pre-patch.

On 17.9.60 this does work. On 17.10.67 this is not working so definitely a bug in the new patch. I have both versions, 1 installed on a laptop and the other on my desktop for different leagues.

Silfir · 08-15-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Please point to the link where you describe your problem with shopping. Thanks.

I haven't exactly flooded the forum with posts... But here you go:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post4077636

I count three other forum users in the thread who've confirmed that Shop a Player appears to only be broken if you have no money for free agents, including the guy who made the original bug report.

I do appreciate that there must be a non-trivial number of players who report "Shop a Player" must be broken because no one will make any offers for their overpaid veterans - which appears to be what Markus' only reply in the thread is aimed at. I've debated sending in my league file as per his instructions, but considering the issue is reproducible for me in an MLB Quickstart game, I'm not sure if that would be useful. It is strange that he didn't catch this one in testing; I'd have assumed one of his test scenarios would include a financially destitute team, so there's also a chance this issue only affects some installs. Which, of course, is a QA nightmare if there ever was one.

clamel · 08-15-2016, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonywvalentine

On 17.9.60 this does work. On 17.10.67 this is not working so definitely a bug in the new patch. I have both versions, 1 installed on a laptop and the other on my desktop for different leagues.

Oh man, this was bad. I'm still in 17.6.46 and it works fine in that. Have held back on each patch since 17.6.46 only because in each and everyone a IMHO a major problem pops up.
Not setting up a lineup with starter as a backup on a different position is indeed a bug that need to be fixed.

Now I have too wait, and hope next patch will be an inch better

curt · 08-15-2016, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbreen

Not kidding. As a steam-user the Patch was forced on me and the game is unplayable and will be for the foreseeable future. I paid for this game, I want to be able to play it. This has happened in the past as well.

I'm pretty sure you can set your steam game to not auto update patches.Maybe someone else can confirm this.

RchW · 08-15-2016, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byzeil

100% I don't use steam, I buy direct and I don't apply patches until the reports on them are that they are good because I have that option.

I understand your frustration and your complaints are valid. That said you do have some options. Buy direct and don't patch right away or complain to steam about the inability to control when you patch. I'd be a 100% with you if the only option to get the game was steam but there are alternatives.

Granted patches that don't cause other problems would be ideal but that isn't how a lot of the software industry works. I worked in the field for a long time and we were always very hesitant to apply patches before they were thoroughly vetted.

Tell steam you want the option to apply/not apply updates or buy direct and keep the control.

Edit: and yes, complain to OOTPD when a bad patch is released. They aren't off the hook, they have a responsibility here, but there are things you can do so that your gaming experience isn't ruined.

Who are you replying to? You may be confused. I'm not having any issues with the latest patch and I'm not locked into Steam. I was poking a stick in the general direction of those who, last year, insisted patches should be instant. Last year patches were delayed in full release for exactly the reason we have this thread now and the whining hurts the ears. Short memories on this board. Patches are dangerous. Steam should step up to the plate by giving users the option not to install patches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by curt

I'm pretty sure you can set your steam game to not auto update patches.Maybe someone else can confirm this.

Apparently not. I've tried. You can change priority but not the patch itself

endgame · 08-15-2016, 07:24 PM

Yeah, well, overall points end up a bit moot. We're all usually anxious to install a patch. Granted, there are those who don't/won't until the vast majority of forum response is okay with the delivered quality and impact. I don't know how many there are, and we know Steam, even if it offered the option, or OOTPD for that matter don't have the luxury of saying, "Update at your own risk, this is a patch that breaks other things."

Technically, that's a beta label. No blame or fingers meant to be pointed here, but what the system and protocol needs is more time, more quality testing, with more quality people. We don't have any or many of those things come late-patch time, unfortunately. Development wants to quickly address concerns, users want those concerns addressed, testers want more time to examine ALL things, not just the quick fix, and things go out the door. Just like any other process, big or small. I'd like to always have a choice, but they're fewer and fewer in any industry. The one element, most assuredly, I'd love to see is undo it if it does muck something up, but that's just not easy either without prudent backups and a bit of work, but it can be done.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like automatic updates. But we're driven by impatience and that alone can be worse, regardless if it's the user end or the developer.

BigRed75 · 08-15-2016, 07:41 PM

I think OOTPD should make a deal with us, the customers:

They'll thoroughly test each patch with a beta group before releasing it, so long as nobody on these boards makes a post that asks "Does anybody know when the next patch will be released?"

Like Rich said, the whining hurts the ears.

byzeil · 08-15-2016, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Who are you replying to? You may be confused. I'm not having any issues with the latest patch and I'm not locked into Steam. I was poking a stick in the general direction of those who, last year, insisted patches should be instant. Last year patches were delayed in full release for exactly the reason we have this thread now and the whining hurts the ears. Short memories on this board. Patches are dangerous. Steam should step up to the plate by giving users the option not to install patches.

Apparently not. I've tried. You can change priority but not the patch itself

Don't think I'm confused, though if I am I might not realize it

I'm agreeing with you and expounding on the issue and options available to users to avoid a patch messing up their league.

pbreen · 08-15-2016, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curt

I'm pretty sure you can set your steam game to not auto update patches.Maybe someone else can confirm this.

Like someone else clarified, you cannot stop updates or revert to a previous update, the game automatically updates when you open the game. You cannot play the game without it updating, which is irritating.

wsenkow · 08-16-2016, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I agree but when OOTPD tried to explain delayed updates last year steam posters were not receptive. They insisted that instant updates were a right. They got it. Live with it now.

Why is Steam getting no grief?

Live with it now? Care to name those that insisted upon instant updates? Me? Let me know if it is. "They got it. Live with it now." Does that include me? Yes? No? Someone else in this thread? I think it is inappropriate on your part to lump Steam account members whom for the most part in this thread mention Steam as part of a response to other comments,mainly from non-steam members, directed towards us. In fact you have referred more to Steam than the Steam users here put together, mostly due to reminding us over and over again that we deserve the issues we have. If you hate the whining of it then get yourself and your non-Steam friends to stop soliciting responses from us. In the meantime I hate to be reminded over and over again that I, by implication, deserve the in-game issues due to the patch more than someone else may.

Glad to hear that you have no issue with the patch, and that you have no reason to be on this thread in the first place except to display your personal gratification over a select group of OOTP 17 gamers.

pbreen · 08-16-2016, 12:30 AM

The only suggestion I would have is for Steam to initiate the beta revert by going into the game preferences. A lot of popular games like Crusader Kings II and Civilization V allow you to revert back and forth by selecting a specific "beta". We should have that option, where we get the auto update like we now have, but we have the opportunity to revert.
I really do not mind the auto-update, because more often than not the update improves the game and does not debilitate it. My beef is that I basically cannot play the game on Steam if the update is game-breaking.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 08-16-2016, 01:07 AM

As a Mac user and a modern day luddite I have absolutely no idea why anybody would buy games through Steam if the option of direct-from-the-developer exists, that said:

1) OOTP probably does more within patches to improve the game than any other developer I have seen. As in, actually adding features that no one had a right to expect (e.g. the inflation option, silly as I think it is)

2) The downside with (1) is that stuff tends to break between patches. There just aren't enough beta testers who hang around to test the patches. So it's kind of pick your poison. Ultimately, you get a better game in the end, but my impression is that the general public does pick up more of the testing load with the later patches.

pbreen · 08-16-2016, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

2) The downside with (1) is that stuff tends to break between patches. There just aren't enough beta testers who hang around to test the patches. So it's kind of pick your poison. Ultimately, you get a better game in the end, but my impression is that the general public does pick up more of the testing load with the later patches.

Beta testers? It's called Steam-users.

NoOne · 08-16-2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsenkow

Live with it now? Care to name those that insisted upon instant updates? Me? Let me know if it is. "They got it. Live with it now." Does that include me? Yes? No? Someone else in this thread? I think it is inappropriate on your part to lump Steam account members whom for the most part in this thread mention Steam as part of a response to other comments,mainly from non-steam members, directed towards us. In fact you have referred more to Steam than the Steam users here put together, mostly due to reminding us over and over again that we deserve the issues we have. If you hate the whining of it then get yourself and your non-Steam friends to stop soliciting responses from us. In the meantime I hate to be reminded over and over again that I, by implication, deserve the in-game issues due to the patch more than someone else may.

Glad to hear that you have no issue with the patch, and that you have no reason to be on this thread in the first place except to display your personal gratification over a select group of OOTP 17 gamers.

rich and i have a little history, so i think what i am about to say is hilariously ironic.

he's just pointing out a hypocrisy. the point is the peanut gallery, myself and rich included, are a bunch of lunatics from ootpd's point of view because out of X-number of people a certain percentage are going to be irrational about every single thing/event that occurs related to ootp development and patches

(that's probably one of their biggest frustration with public relations... biting their tongue in these forums!)

=> relax, it will all be over soon.

the people with steam should be upset with steam. those without steam and don't want to help test a patch should only blame themselves for downloading, immediately.

I thought i waited long enough. then posts about the mil's being dropped popped up.. by coincidence i've not been playing for a bit, lol. quite fortuitous for me.

wsenkow · 08-16-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

=> relax, it will all be over soon.

I'm very relaxed, now that I have let out some 'steam'.

endgame · 08-16-2016, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbreen

Beta testers? It's called Steam-users.

More true than you know.

Benchmark · 08-16-2016, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

the people with steam should be upset with steam. those without steam and don't want to help test a patch should only blame themselves for downloading, immediately.

Let me first say, I don't have steam and never would use steam.

Now, I find it extremely hilarious that you blame Steam for the Developers problem. If the Developer had Beta Testing like a professional software company then there wouldn't be a problem. This isn't the first time a patch has gone bad. A lot of people knew within the first couple minutes of play there was a problem. It was like no one even played it before sending it out. There lies the problem when a customer sees the issue within a couple minutes on a released product. Steam users have a right to be upset and should blame OOTP and not Steam.
If I owned Steam, I would be pissed at OOTP for this crap and you for blaming their company. Yes, they should look into reverting, but they expect professional software companies to deliver. It's interesting that the old forum members allow this and make excuses for this still. If OOTP is beating Baseball Mogul 30:1(Delveloper's Quote) they sure don't look like a small company to me. It's time to expect more.....

Now, here is the solution to resolve the problem so we can move on.

OOTP puts out a public beta on ALL new updates, like they have been before this. Once Beta is good, they can send to Steam and release.

This now puts it on the customer to take a chance on the Beta knowing it's a Beta. Without a Beta people should expect everything is good to go. That is a Standard OOTP should at least expect from themselves. Every company has Quality Control and Standards and OOTP needs to make sure theirs are upheld.

David Watts · 08-16-2016, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

As a Mac user and a modern day luddite I have absolutely no idea why anybody would buy games through Steam if the option of direct-from-the-developer exists, that said:

1) OOTP probably does more within patches to improve the game than any other developer I have seen. As in, actually adding features that no one had a right to expect (e.g. the inflation option, silly as I think it is)

2) The downside with (1) is that stuff tends to break between patches. There just aren't enough beta testers who hang around to test the patches. So it's kind of pick your poison. Ultimately, you get a better game in the end, but my impression is that the general public does pick up more of the testing load with the later patches.

This why would anyone purchase from Steam thing keeps coming up, so I thought I would finally respond. When I purchase OOTP it takes 3-4 hours for the initial download to finish( I have crappy AT&T DSL for internet). Now, if I purchase from OOTP, patches are going to for the most part take that same 3-4 hours. Of course, that's if they don't crap out after 2 hours forcing me to start all over again. With Steam, the initial download still takes 3-4 hours, but patches download faster. I've also never once had a Steam download stop working halfway finished.

I also love the fact that I have my games forever, without having to keep track of a license.

Matt Arnold · 08-16-2016, 03:22 PM

We do apologize for the problems with the patches. You can be sure to see some changes for the patch-cycles next year, to ensure that things get a much more thorough testing done internally before being released to the public, whether in some sort of public beta or however else we decide to do it.

Rizon · 08-16-2016, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

We do apologize for the problems with the patches. You can be sure to see some changes for the patch-cycles next year, to ensure that things get a much more thorough testing done internally before being released to the public, whether in some sort of public beta or however else we decide to do it.

You da man, Matt, I don't care what Steve Kuffrey says about you.

08-15-2016, 07:24 PM	#106
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	Yeah, well, overall points end up a bit moot. We're all usually anxious to install a patch. Granted, there are those who don't/won't until the vast majority of forum response is okay with the delivered quality and impact. I don't know how many there are, and we know Steam, even if it offered the option, or OOTPD for that matter don't have the luxury of saying, "Update at your own risk, this is a patch that breaks other things." Technically, that's a beta label. No blame or fingers meant to be pointed here, but what the system and protocol needs is more time, more quality testing, with more quality people. We don't have any or many of those things come late-patch time, unfortunately. Development wants to quickly address concerns, users want those concerns addressed, testers want more time to examine ALL things, not just the quick fix, and things go out the door. Just like any other process, big or small. I'd like to always have a choice, but they're fewer and fewer in any industry. The one element, most assuredly, I'd love to see is undo it if it does muck something up, but that's just not easy either without prudent backups and a bit of work, but it can be done. Don't get me wrong, I don't like automatic updates. But we're driven by impatience and that alone can be worse, regardless if it's the user end or the developer. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

08-15-2016, 07:41 PM	#107
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,430	I think OOTPD should make a deal with us, the customers: They'll thoroughly test each patch with a beta group before releasing it, so long as nobody on these boards makes a post that asks "Does anybody know when the next patch will be released?" Like Rich said, the whining hurts the ears. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

08-16-2016, 01:07 AM	#112
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,119	As a Mac user and a modern day luddite I have absolutely no idea why anybody would buy games through Steam if the option of direct-from-the-developer exists, that said: 1) OOTP probably does more within patches to improve the game than any other developer I have seen. As in, actually adding features that no one had a right to expect (e.g. the inflation option, silly as I think it is) 2) The downside with (1) is that stuff tends to break between patches. There just aren't enough beta testers who hang around to test the patches. So it's kind of pick your poison. Ultimately, you get a better game in the end, but my impression is that the general public does pick up more of the testing load with the later patches. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason Last edited by Cinnamon J. Scudworth; 08-16-2016 at 01:12 AM.

08-16-2016, 12:30 AM	#111
pbreen Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 38	The only suggestion I would have is for Steam to initiate the beta revert by going into the game preferences. A lot of popular games like Crusader Kings II and Civilization V allow you to revert back and forth by selecting a specific "beta". We should have that option, where we get the auto update like we now have, but we have the opportunity to revert. I really do not mind the auto-update, because more often than not the update improves the game and does not debilitate it. My beef is that I basically cannot play the game on Steam if the update is game-breaking.

08-16-2016, 03:22 PM	#119
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,621	We do apologize for the problems with the patches. You can be sure to see some changes for the patch-cycles next year, to ensure that things get a much more thorough testing done internally before being released to the public, whether in some sort of public beta or however else we decide to do it.