Am I nuts, or do substitutions not work great?

[TLB1975]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I'm guessing because SS is a harder position to play than 2B is. If he's rated that high at SS, than he should be able to play 2B at a high rate.

I understand the OOTP logic behind having his rating being high at both positions. My questions/comment is more does this create the issue many are seeing of the AI playing starters at multiple positions that in RL would not happen?

How many ML teams today would start their SS at 2B either for a day off or an injury issue? My guess is that number would be quite low yet in OOTP its fairly substantial since so many players are rated highly enough at positions they really haven't played in a long time.

[VarlosZ]

Well are we sure that a player in real life does see a big drop-off in skill at a position he hasn't played in a while? It certainly wouldn't surprise me, but I also wouldn't be shocked if it was more like riding a bike, and a few days of practice/games at the old position is enough to get someone back near his old level of proficiency at the position (not accounting for any changes in range, etc. in the interregnum).

I also assume that it makes a difference what positions we're talking about -- moving around the outfield is probably less likely to be a problem than moving around the infield (although, Manny Machado seemed to have no problem picking up 3B after, AFAICT, playing SS his whole life).

Getting well off-topic here, but one thing I miss from very old versions of the game is the semi-random (or possibly hidden) rating for a player just trying a new position. It was possible for a player to be an instant Gold Glover at a new position instead of always needing a season or two to get up to speed.

[TLB1975]

I think there's two different points here. One is whether a guy could switch positions and be effective (i.e. SS to 2B), and two how much does it happen in RL vs OOTP. Part of your original post was the statement "it happens in real life all the time".

As an example, I looked at RL stats for ML SS's for 2014 to see how many of them fielded at any other positions. Of the top 22 SS's in AB's, 20 out of the 22 only fielded at SS. Two players, Xander Bogarts and Asdrubal Cabrera fielded a position other than SS.

Looking at RL 2014 stats for 2B's, 5 out of the top 23 fielded a position other than 2B. (Ben Zobrist, Daniel Murphy, Asdrubal Cabrera, DJ LeMahieu, and Gordon Beckham).

I would say I disagree with your statement that moving starters around the infield happens in real life all the time.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by VarlosZ

Well are we sure that a player in real life does see a big drop-off in skill at a position he hasn't played in a while? It certainly wouldn't surprise me, but I also wouldn't be shocked if it was more like riding a bike, and a few days of practice/games at the old position is enough to get someone back near his old level of proficiency at the position (not accounting for any changes in range, etc. in the interregnum).

I also assume that it makes a difference what positions we're talking about -- moving around the outfield is probably less likely to be a problem than moving around the infield (although, Manny Machado seemed to have no problem picking up 3B after, AFAICT, playing SS his whole life).

Getting well off-topic here, but one thing I miss from very old versions of the game is the semi-random (or possibly hidden) rating for a player just trying a new position. It was possible for a player to be an instant Gold Glover at a new position instead of always needing a season or two to get up to speed.

See Tiger's 3B Nick Castellanos. Tigers drafted him and then traded for Prince Fielder and moved Miggy to 3B. Thinking he was blocked they tried making Nick into an outfielder. When they traded Prince to the Rangers they put Castellanos back at 3B. He was flat out horrible in the field last season. Ranked at the bottom defensively in the league. This year he's nothing spectacular, but he has improved.

[VarlosZ]

Originally Posted by TLB1975

I think there's two different points here. One is whether a guy could switch positions and be effective (i.e. SS to 2B), and two how much does it happen in RL vs OOTP. Part of your original post was the statement "it happens in real life all the time".

As an example, I looked at RL stats for ML SS's for 2014 to see how many of them fielded at any other positions. Of the top 22 SS's in AB's, 20 out of the 22 only fielded at SS. Two players, Xander Bogarts and Asdrubal Cabrera fielded a position other than SS.

Looking at RL 2014 stats for 2B's, 5 out of the top 23 fielded a position other than 2B. (Ben Zobrist, Daniel Murphy, Asdrubal Cabrera, DJ LeMahieu, and Gordon Beckham).

I would say I disagree with your statement that moving starters around the infield happens in real life all the time.

Heh, "all the time" may have been sloppy wording on my part. I merely meant that it happens often enough that it wouldn't exactly raise eyebrows, not that every team does it every year.

It also happens more often with younger players, below average players, guys who are somewhat "fringey," etc. For a host of reasons, established players just don't get juggled in the same way. A team forced to rely as primary starters on a couple of guys who aren't far removed from the platonic ideal of a utility infielder is obviously going to be a lot more willing to shuffle depth charts based on day-to-day exigencies instead of just having one guy be "the man" at 2B or whatever (and these are guys who are more likely to fall outside the the top 22 for games played at any one position).

[grenv]

Uncheck the "auto synch lineups and depth charts" box, top right. Should allow starters to be set as backup for other positions.