Cant get feeder leagues right.

RightBack2 · 07-21-2016, 11:37 AM

I use biggios formula and the amount of players is good but the stats always come out messed messed up. So guys only have one season of stats and a lot of top prospects don't even have stats at all. Also, some guys who hit .225 in their one season of hs are regarded as 5 star prospects. I've double checked all settings as far as player creation and league rules. Both my college and feeder leagues are simply constructed. 1 sub league and 2 divisions and I regenerated the schedule.

Rain King · 07-21-2016, 11:46 AM

One thing to realize when you are using feeders...the stats are based on their current ability, not their potential. Also, since they are essentially playing against players who are also getting drafted the competition is (theoretically) much better than generated stats and/or any real life pre-draft competition. I guess the closest comp would be the Cape Cod league or something...but a lot of those guys never get drafted.

RightBack2 · 07-21-2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

One thing to realize when you are using feeders...the stats are based on their current ability, not their potential.

Shouldn't stats determine their potential though? You never see a guy drafted in the first or second round in real life that sucked at the current level they're at.

Padreman · 07-21-2016, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightBack2

Shouldn't stats determine their potential though? You never see a guy drafted in the first or second round in real life that sucked at the current level they're at.

Totally agree. In real life a .220 hitter is not get scouts attention

Honorable_Pawn · 07-21-2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightBack2

I use biggios formula and the amount of players is good but the stats always come out messed messed up. So guys only have one season of stats and a lot of top prospects don't even have stats at all. Also, some guys who hit .225 in their one season of hs are regarded as 5 star prospects. I've double checked all settings as far as player creation and league rules. Both my college and feeder leagues are simply constructed. 1 sub league and 2 divisions and I regenerated the schedule.

Agreed.

Feeders are OOTP's biggest weakness. It's best to play without them.

Rain King · 07-21-2016, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightBack2

Shouldn't stats determine their potential though? You never see a guy drafted in the first or second round in real life that sucked at the current level they're at.

No, I don't think stats should determine potential. I do think that players with good potential should have current ratings that at least make them pretty good players at the feeder level and I do think that happens most of the time.

Sweed · 07-21-2016, 07:45 PM

Pretty tough to make feeders totally realistic until OOTP makes an entire amateur world for millions of players to compete. You can't have "naturals" competing against "normals" and "less than normals" inflating their numbers and looking like men among boys unless you have this complete world of talent. Can you?

Instead you get a world of ~ 60 high school teams and ~60 college teams that have a total of somewhere around 4,000 to 5,000 players. These 4 year schools will generate a draft class from these 5,000 players while the real world will generate a draft class from millions.

How slow would your feeder league process if it had every HS and college team in the US? Want to add all amateur leagues from around the world or just limit it to the Caribbean, Mexico, and South America?

Millions and millions of players created to make ~1500 players a year for the draft with realistic dominating stats. No thanks.

You can't have a league with only draftable players competing with each other and also have "men among boys stats". You'd end up with either inflated batting stats at the expense of pitching stats or inflated pitching stats at the expense of hitting.

I use and like feeders but I also understand the numbers aren't going to the same as numbers for real life phenoms. But, they are numbers that are generated in real games that have been played out in a league where I know the level of competition. This works well enough IMHO.

The only way to have real life dominant numbers is going to be from non-feeder league game created draft classes with "made up" stats that are based on a player's potential. Unless you go to the model of hundreds of thousands of teams with millions of "useless fodder" to make your phenoms look like, well phenoms

I'd much rather use my feeders and games played with an understanding of how the numbers relate than use "made up" stats (just my opinion and totally understand why others wouldn't agree).

I think being able to draft players from a league where real games were played is a strength of OOTP, not a weakness.

Rain King · 07-21-2016, 07:51 PM

Yea, I look at the feeder leagues like an all-star prospect league. I also prefer to make them all the same age and only play in it for one year because of this. I don't like the idea of all-star 18-year olds on the same team as all-star 15-year olds.

sprague · 07-22-2016, 03:33 AM

Every test i have ever run has feeder stats based on potential not actual. DID something change for 17?

Try a test. The 20 actual 180 potential power guy will hit way more than the 80 actual 80 potential guy.

andyhdz · 07-22-2016, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweed

I think being able to draft players from a league where real games were played is a strength of OOTP, not a weakness.

What he said times 1000.

NotMuchTime · 07-23-2016, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightBack2

Shouldn't stats determine their potential though? You never see a guy drafted in the first or second round in real life that sucked at the current level they're at.

I agree 100%. However, scouts in MLB don't have commissioner mode enabled so they can't see a players potential ratings like OOTP scouts can. The OOTP scouts are way better than their real life peers and are extremely under paid.

OOTP would be better off generating stats (when they don't exist/no feeder leagues) and let the scouts 'guess' rather than look at the ratings.

Honorable_Pawn · 07-23-2016, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprague

Every test i have ever run has feeder stats based on potential not actual. DID something change for 17?

Try a test. The 20 actual 180 potential power guy will hit way more than the 80 actual 80 potential guy.

I did not know this. (I still haven't finished my '16 season yet. That is definitely a good thing.

07-21-2016, 11:37 AM	#1
RightBack2 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Camden Yards Posts: 74	Cant get feeder leagues right. I use biggios formula and the amount of players is good but the stats always come out messed messed up. So guys only have one season of stats and a lot of top prospects don't even have stats at all. Also, some guys who hit .225 in their one season of hs are regarded as 5 star prospects. I've double checked all settings as far as player creation and league rules. Both my college and feeder leagues are simply constructed. 1 sub league and 2 divisions and I regenerated the schedule.

07-21-2016, 11:46 AM	#2
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,323	One thing to realize when you are using feeders...the stats are based on their current ability, not their potential. Also, since they are essentially playing against players who are also getting drafted the competition is (theoretically) much better than generated stats and/or any real life pre-draft competition. I guess the closest comp would be the Cape Cod league or something...but a lot of those guys never get drafted.

07-21-2016, 07:45 PM	#7
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 7,082	Pretty tough to make feeders totally realistic until OOTP makes an entire amateur world for millions of players to compete. You can't have "naturals" competing against "normals" and "less than normals" inflating their numbers and looking like men among boys unless you have this complete world of talent. Can you? Instead you get a world of ~ 60 high school teams and ~60 college teams that have a total of somewhere around 4,000 to 5,000 players. These 4 year schools will generate a draft class from these 5,000 players while the real world will generate a draft class from millions. How slow would your feeder league process if it had every HS and college team in the US? Want to add all amateur leagues from around the world or just limit it to the Caribbean, Mexico, and South America? Millions and millions of players created to make ~1500 players a year for the draft with realistic dominating stats. No thanks. You can't have a league with only draftable players competing with each other and also have "men among boys stats". You'd end up with either inflated batting stats at the expense of pitching stats or inflated pitching stats at the expense of hitting. I use and like feeders but I also understand the numbers aren't going to the same as numbers for real life phenoms. But, they are numbers that are generated in real games that have been played out in a league where I know the level of competition. This works well enough IMHO. The only way to have real life dominant numbers is going to be from non-feeder league game created draft classes with "made up" stats that are based on a player's potential. Unless you go to the model of hundreds of thousands of teams with millions of "useless fodder" to make your phenoms look like, well phenoms I'd much rather use my feeders and games played with an understanding of how the numbers relate than use "made up" stats (just my opinion and totally understand why others wouldn't agree). I think being able to draft players from a league where real games were played is a strength of OOTP, not a weakness.

07-21-2016, 07:51 PM	#8
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,323	Yea, I look at the feeder leagues like an all-star prospect league. I also prefer to make them all the same age and only play in it for one year because of this. I don't like the idea of all-star 18-year olds on the same team as all-star 15-year olds.

07-22-2016, 03:33 AM	#9
sprague All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,948	Every test i have ever run has feeder stats based on potential not actual. DID something change for 17? Try a test. The 20 actual 180 potential power guy will hit way more than the 80 actual 80 potential guy.