Pitcher Fatigue - Doesnt seem right

[Orioles]

My closer hasn't pitched in 4 days, yet he is only 82% rested. Seems strange that a closer wouldn't be fully rested having 3 days rest. He has average stamina, 3 on a scale of 1-5. I would think after one days rest he would be ready, at worse two days rest.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Orioles

My closer hasn't pitched in 4 days, yet he is only 82% rested. Seems strange that a closer wouldn't be fully rested having 3 days rest. He has average stamina, 3 on a scale of 1-5. I would think after one days rest he would be ready, at worse two days rest.

That suggests a setting is off. Have these changed at all?

[Anyone]

Something's off in the patch, I think. I'm using the same settings as before (pitcher stamina low) but a guy isn't 100% rested because 4 days ago he threw 30 pitches?

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

This can happen if a guy has come off of a period of heavy use (like 4 games in 5 days or something).

I wouldn't overthink it. He's rested, by the game's standards. If you pitch him today, he is almost certainly going to be available tomorrow as well.

[Orioles]

I am using 2002 setting, stamina is low. Either way a closer should be 100% rested after 3 days rest. Maybe I am reading this wrong, but when I see 82% rested I assume he will be 82% effective based on his ratings. Is that incorrect?

I dont think its all the settings, I have this guy with more pitches and only with one day of rest. He is more rested.

[MarkInCincy]

Anything green he is good to go

Sent from my Z812 using Tapatalk

[robert2]

The changelist for the new patch includes "modified fatigue calculations for relievers" so it's gotta be due to that. I've noticed the same changes as you.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by Orioles

I am using 2002 setting, stamina is low. Either way a closer should be 100% rested after 3 days rest. Maybe I am reading this wrong, but when I see 82% rested I assume he will be 82% effective based on his ratings. Is that incorrect?

I dont think its all the settings, I have this guy with more pitches and only with one day of rest. He is more rested.

It's not as bad as only 82% effective. Sometimes in desperation the AI throws a pitcher in who's at 30% or something. If that were 30% of his original ratings, he'd almost automatically get lit up. Instead, he still has a chance to get outs (just not a very good chance).

I don't know the exact penalty, and I don't think we're supposed to know, which is fine. Min-maxing isn't a good practice, so I'm fine with not knowing exactly.

I also think in general, even when there's no bug involved, pitchers tend to recover more slowly from short relief stints than I think they should. I actually have relief pitcher stamina in my game at 1.800 (pitcher endurance at low and starting pitcher stamina at the default 1.000 so I get the realistically modern low number of complete games; that part seems fine)...yet still I have the pitcher who's not 100% four days after throwing just 30 pitches in relief.

So something is sometimes going wrong since the patch it seems.

There are two separate issues on my end, because I think in general the default, even when it's working, has relievers recover too slowly from short relief appearances: Kevin Siegrist made 81 relief appearances last season (to lead the NL) and lots of guys were in the 70's in appearances, just looking at NL stats. The default fatigue system would make it very hard to do that, even when it's working, unless you used the pitcher whether it was a good spot for him or not whenever he wasn't tired, specifically trying to duplicate it. But I fix that by turning up relief endurance by a whole lot (which I was afraid would lead to relievers too comfortably pitching 5 inning stints or something, but that hasn't become a problem).

Edit to the above: At least with my using 1.800 for a relief endurance multiplier, those numbers are more than possible. In checking my league's top-ever pitchers in games pitched, there are guys who have been in the upper 80's in games pitched. That may seem too high, but those are the record holder and those close to him, along with my greatly raising relief endurance. That does suggest it's working better than I thought, though. As to how much better, I'd have to know if someone who uses the defaults usually has someone get around 80 relief appearances in a season-- which someone can answer if they like.

But now there seems to be something that's holding recovery back further in some cases...I just found the one, but since someone else posted another that looks bad I thought I'd offer up mine as well.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by Orioles

I am using 2002 setting, stamina is low. Either way a closer should be 100% rested after 3 days rest. Maybe I am reading this wrong, but when I see 82% rested I assume he will be 82% effective based on his ratings. Is that incorrect?

No, I don't think that is correct. Between-game fatigue in OOTP is not a direct ratings hit (unlike, for example, a day-to-day injury). But it has an impact on how quickly a pitcher goes from "OK" to "tired" within a game, and how quickly he recovers after the game. Maybe because he's at 82% instead of 100% you can get 25 effective pitches out of him instead of 35, but it's not like he's pitching at 80% effectiveness out of the gate. Just like if a starter pitched on short-rest. He might enter the day at 80-85% rested and you might notice him tiring an inning earlier than he normally would.

Basically, my feeling is that the pitcher fatigue settings for different eras in OOTP serve to govern how big the starting rotation has to be and how many days in a row relievers can pitch effectively. For modern settings the "rule" in OOTP is that relievers can pitch two days in a row, and they become "tired" (orange) on the third day (and hence not listed as a relief option on the "team info" screen in-game). The specific rest percentages are less important.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Orioles

I am using 2002 setting, stamina is low. Either way a closer should be 100% rested after 3 days rest. Maybe I am reading this wrong, but when I see 82% rested I assume he will be 82% effective based on his ratings. Is that incorrect?

I dont think its all the settings, I have this guy with more pitches and only with one day of rest. He is more rested.

No I don't see it that way. It's not a direct scale. What you don't want to do is use a tired arm too long. At 100% a RP may have 35-50 pitches in his arm. At 75% it may be 25-30. At 50% it may be 10-15 with reduced effectiveness. It's not likely you'd ever want to use a guy below 50% unless there is nothing left.

Tiredness is hugely affected by consecutive days. A pitcher throwing 45 on 2 consecutive days will be 50% or less vs another who had a day off in between might be 75%+

[robert2]

I think this should be looked at again. I played my first 15 inning game since the latest patch and I basically wound up spending the next week with an extremely thin bullpen.

[bwburke94]

Is it as bad as it was at launch, from what you're seeing?

[TwinsGuy34]

This was a complaint of mine from OOTP 17 launch, but in my games after the patch, it's where it should be, IMO.

I play w/ stamina on "normal". The guys in my pen rest up at about the rate you'd expect. I'm pitching them 15-25 pitches, or about an inning, and they'll be good to go in 2 days at 100%.

[eldur00]

I saw something similar as well.

One of my RP's was good to go in a tight game (good to go as in his name in the list was in black, not in yellow). He has pitched only 10 pitches 2 days prior. I decided to not use him, and used my setup guy instead even if he played the night before, and ended up losing the game.

Then my team had a day off.

The next game, when I went to change my starter, I saw the RP I didn't use in that tight game. His name was in yellow and sure enough, 82% Stamina and slightly tired. Last time he pitched was 4 days ago, 10 pitches.

How did he go from being not tired to slightly tired without pitching and with a day off ?

[robert2]

Originally Posted by robert2

I think this should be looked at again. I played my first 15 inning game since the latest patch and I basically wound up spending the next week with an extremely thin bullpen.

For what it's worth, since posting this I have changed pitcher stamina from "Very Low" to "Low" and that seems to have done the trick. As a matter of fact, I think it's better than it was before the patch.

[NoOne]

Edit: only about SP... haven't watched over rp in regard to stamina much at all.

something slightly changed in the last patch. i am seeing slightly higher %'s the day before fully recovering (day3) at the "Low stamina setting", but so far still working as expected day 4. i think some lower stamina guys are more affected... even on day 5, i see a "lower" stamina SP not getting to 100%, if they had an elevated pitch count in the last game, but in the past i would have thought** they would recover in similar context. it's a new wrinkle, but i use pitch counts so i don't see the repercussions, i think.

that's a high stamina guy and also on a pitch count. if he throws ~118+ pitches he's going to be less than ~92% rested on day four. i always do this for my top 2 or three starters. stamina plays a huge role. even a 70/100 stamina needs to stay less than 114ish -- even then he could be 93-95% on day 4. get much lower stamina and you have to use pitch counts that could severely stress your bullpen. at teh Low setting, only the higher stamina guys can consistently do it every 4 days.

if he's a low stamina pitcher, liek the picture posted, i would look into that as the reason why he's still a bit tired on day four, which is not what you expected on past experiences, i assume. slowly raise it and look at % recovery again... it's not a cumulatively calculated value... it will show as if he was that new stamina from the beginning of recovery. you can find the thresholds of stamina and recovery %... if you want to. if i had the info, i'd post it here. never done it.

individual pitcher's stamina affects how quickly they tire in games as well as how fast they recover from various pitches thrown in recent days. i don't think the workload from more than 5 days ago is part of the equation, though (in the past i did think differently*). it works exactly as i expect with the staminas i am familiar with - i have not worked out the actually equation used, but i should have seen a deviation from a prediction by now.