Trade Acquisitions (Relievers) become terrible

swingofthings · 06-09-2016, 09:18 PM

In one of my saves, I've traded for something like 20 relievers over 3 seasons. Every offseason I try to assemble a good pen full of highly rated relievers with good performance, and every trade deadline I do the same because all my acquisitions are busts.

Most of them suddenly have a 1-to-1 K/BB ratio or worse after the trade. Typically I'll trade for someone with something like a 9 to 11 K/9 against a 2/3 BB/9. They end up more like 5-6 BB/9 and 3-5 K/9 after the trade, and ERAs jumping from 2.5 to 6 or 7. This happens constantly. Scouting is 100% accurate but their ratings seem to have absolutely no effect on performance after I acquire them.

What gives? Any ideas?

1994WSChamps · 06-09-2016, 09:26 PM

Do you play the games out? Do you have the warm up rule on? I didn't realize I had it on my first year and I played about half the games, went 42-120 with a bullpen era over 6

MarkInCincy · 06-09-2016, 09:39 PM

RP's are not known for being consistent outside of some true studs, if I can get 2 decent yes in a row from one I am happy ,it is generally 1 or less, I never go more than 2 year contract on any RP

Sent from my Z812 using Tapatalk

BigRed75 · 06-09-2016, 09:59 PM

What's the old fantasy baseball canard? Don't spend money on saves? The same is really true of all relief pitchers, outside of the true studs.

If you trade for a reliever who is doing well for his current team, you are essentially buying at the top of the market.

NYYANKS98 · 06-09-2016, 10:29 PM

How is you defense?

Baldrick88 · 06-09-2016, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

What's the old fantasy baseball canard? Don't spend money on saves? The same is really true of all relief pitchers, outside of the true studs.

If you trade for a reliever who is doing well for his current team, you are essentially buying at the top of the market.

The Jays this year have that mentality.

NoOne · 06-10-2016, 12:06 PM

you want high stuff and good movement for a consistent reliever <cough>... control can actually be a tad below half your scale - unless you use a very small scale, maybe 10 and under i'd stick to 1/2 and above.

pitch selection matters! i've seen a guy (100pt scale) that was 128/75/75 and he was junk because he threw fastball / sinker. he had 3 of 5 bad years before i dumped him.

consistent RP guys cost alot relative to their role... so if you want to have more than a couple you have to develop them or trade for prospects. you can trade for these prospects fairly cheaply.

RP are undervalued by traditional though. they affect the game nearly as much as a position player who starts 100-120games. heavy use like 100ip and they can touch the game more than a regular.

smiller · 06-10-2016, 09:23 PM

I'm another one who seems to go through relievers like Kleenex. I trade for pitchers who have great stats (I play stats only) and as soon as they join my team they too often become liabilities. Even those who do well have trouble maintaining for more than a year. Maybe the fact that I'm GM of the Reds has an effect on them.

MrBojangles · 06-11-2016, 02:14 AM

Yeah, RP is easily the most disposable position on my team. I do find that I can wait pretty late in the off-season to find experienced, good, RP's for fairly cheap. I sign them short term and just keep flipping in this manner.

NYYANKS98 · 06-11-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

Yeah, RP is easily the most disposable position on my team. I do find that I can wait pretty late in the off-season to find experienced, good, RP's for fairly cheap. I sign them short term and just keep flipping in this manner.

I do this too. I'll usually find some decent guys other than maybe a setup my closer and a solid long reliever/backup SP for super cheap and just put really good C, SS and CF behind them and they'll usually put up good numbers even with a relatively ****ty FIP

oriolesmeep · 06-11-2016, 10:00 PM

I tend to use starters as relievers. Most of them are either Rule V picks or guys who took a while to establish themselves in the majors. The great thing about this strategy is that occasionally a pitcher who was moved to the pen eventually can move back into the rotation in case of injury, instead of calling up an unproven guy from AAA. Additionally, I tend to find they're more reliable and consistent. It does mirror real life, as several failed starters (Britton, Betances, Perkins, Tommy Hunter, Liam Hendriks etc.) have turned into anywhere from servicable to elite bullpen arms.

Relievers with two pitchers are volatile. The best combo of pitches from my experience seem to be a fastball-slider, cutter-curve, fastball-splitter, or any sinker-offspeed, but I have not done a comparison between those pitchers and pitchers who throw other combos.

I never trade for relievers mid-season unless I'm in dire need. For every Andrew Miller, there's 5 Koji Ueharas.

NoOne · 06-12-2016, 11:19 AM

starters, especially younger ones, as relievers is a great idea. i find those starters with 3-pitches actually tend to do better than a similarly rated 4+ pitch pitcher - could be randomness folling me... small sample not scientific. hmm nevermnd, i bet that's because they typically use their best 2, which may in fact lower the stuff rating... not similarly rated relative to RP Role. somethign to think about.

if you have a good scout and trust his ratings... trust the relievers you pick up. start paying attnetion to pitch selection. FB/Sinker is going to be good 1/2 the time even if he's 80/80... whereas a 80/80 guy with a better selction will perform more consistently year-to-year. use similar rated players with different 2-pitch selections... numerous of each... and compare results. with a big enough sample you'll find obvious trends, i bet.

if you play stats only... best of luck with relievers

you're left dangling in the wind.... flip a coin it might actually increase your probability of selecting the right RP.

06-09-2016, 09:18 PM	#1
swingofthings Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 6	Trade Acquisitions (Relievers) become terrible In one of my saves, I've traded for something like 20 relievers over 3 seasons. Every offseason I try to assemble a good pen full of highly rated relievers with good performance, and every trade deadline I do the same because all my acquisitions are busts. Most of them suddenly have a 1-to-1 K/BB ratio or worse after the trade. Typically I'll trade for someone with something like a 9 to 11 K/9 against a 2/3 BB/9. They end up more like 5-6 BB/9 and 3-5 K/9 after the trade, and ERAs jumping from 2.5 to 6 or 7. This happens constantly. Scouting is 100% accurate but their ratings seem to have absolutely no effect on performance after I acquire them. What gives? Any ideas?

06-09-2016, 09:39 PM	#3
MarkInCincy All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Cincinnait, OH (WestSider) Posts: 657	RP's are not known for being consistent outside of some true studs, if I can get 2 decent yes in a row from one I am happy ,it is generally 1 or less, I never go more than 2 year contract on any RP Sent from my Z812 using Tapatalk __________________ "A baseball fan has the digestive apparatus of a billy goat. He can, and does, devour any set of statistics with insatiable appetite and then nuzzles hungrily for more." - Sportswriter Arthur Daley "Who says there's an unemployment problem in this country? Just take the five percent unemployed and give them a baseball stat to follow." - Outfielder Andy Van Slyke

06-09-2016, 09:59 PM	#4
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,423	What's the old fantasy baseball canard? Don't spend money on saves? The same is really true of all relief pitchers, outside of the true studs. If you trade for a reliever who is doing well for his current team, you are essentially buying at the top of the market. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

06-09-2016, 09:26 PM	#2
1994WSChamps Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 41	Do you play the games out? Do you have the warm up rule on? I didn't realize I had it on my first year and I played about half the games, went 42-120 with a bullpen era over 6

06-09-2016, 10:29 PM	#5
NYYANKS98 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 128	How is you defense?

06-10-2016, 12:06 PM	#7
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	you want high stuff and good movement for a consistent reliever <cough>... control can actually be a tad below half your scale - unless you use a very small scale, maybe 10 and under i'd stick to 1/2 and above. pitch selection matters! i've seen a guy (100pt scale) that was 128/75/75 and he was junk because he threw fastball / sinker. he had 3 of 5 bad years before i dumped him. consistent RP guys cost alot relative to their role... so if you want to have more than a couple you have to develop them or trade for prospects. you can trade for these prospects fairly cheaply. RP are undervalued by traditional though. they affect the game nearly as much as a position player who starts 100-120games. heavy use like 100ip and they can touch the game more than a regular.

06-10-2016, 09:23 PM	#8
smiller Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Pittsboro NC Posts: 430	I'm another one who seems to go through relievers like Kleenex. I trade for pitchers who have great stats (I play stats only) and as soon as they join my team they too often become liabilities. Even those who do well have trouble maintaining for more than a year. Maybe the fact that I'm GM of the Reds has an effect on them.

06-11-2016, 02:14 AM	#9
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	Yeah, RP is easily the most disposable position on my team. I do find that I can wait pretty late in the off-season to find experienced, good, RP's for fairly cheap. I sign them short term and just keep flipping in this manner.

06-11-2016, 10:00 PM	#11
oriolesmeep Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 103	I tend to use starters as relievers. Most of them are either Rule V picks or guys who took a while to establish themselves in the majors. The great thing about this strategy is that occasionally a pitcher who was moved to the pen eventually can move back into the rotation in case of injury, instead of calling up an unproven guy from AAA. Additionally, I tend to find they're more reliable and consistent. It does mirror real life, as several failed starters (Britton, Betances, Perkins, Tommy Hunter, Liam Hendriks etc.) have turned into anywhere from servicable to elite bullpen arms. Relievers with two pitchers are volatile. The best combo of pitches from my experience seem to be a fastball-slider, cutter-curve, fastball-splitter, or any sinker-offspeed, but I have not done a comparison between those pitchers and pitchers who throw other combos. I never trade for relievers mid-season unless I'm in dire need. For every Andrew Miller, there's 5 Koji Ueharas.

06-12-2016, 11:19 AM	#12
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	starters, especially younger ones, as relievers is a great idea. i find those starters with 3-pitches actually tend to do better than a similarly rated 4+ pitch pitcher - could be randomness folling me... small sample not scientific. hmm nevermnd, i bet that's because they typically use their best 2, which may in fact lower the stuff rating... not similarly rated relative to RP Role. somethign to think about. if you have a good scout and trust his ratings... trust the relievers you pick up. start paying attnetion to pitch selection. FB/Sinker is going to be good 1/2 the time even if he's 80/80... whereas a 80/80 guy with a better selction will perform more consistently year-to-year. use similar rated players with different 2-pitch selections... numerous of each... and compare results. with a big enough sample you'll find obvious trends, i bet. if you play stats only... best of luck with relievers you're left dangling in the wind.... flip a coin it might actually increase your probability of selecting the right RP.