Changing lineups

seven · 06-01-2016, 09:36 PM

I'm playing the current MLB season in commissioner mode and want to alter the Cubs' starting lineups so that the pitcher bats in position 9, rather than 8, given that the Cubs' manager in real life seems to be doing that consistently now. I can't seem to figure out how to do this. I am not the general manager of the Cubs, so is there any way I can make this change as an "outsider"?

dcd111 · 06-02-2016, 09:27 AM

I believe it is related to the manager's style and ratings. I'm not sure what combination specifically causes the description to say that he will consider having the pitcher hit in the 8th spot. But in this particular case I fiddled with an MLB quickstart because I was curious and it seems changing Maddon from Sabermetric to Conventional in the editor will have the effect you are looking for.

NoOne · 06-02-2016, 01:25 PM

that's funny, because only a sabrematrician would bat the pitcher 8th.

i'm sure it's happened before LaRussa and Madden did it, but they have done it the most by HUGE amounts. so, it is definitely not Conventional or traditional in nature.

seven wrote it backward and dcd i think is reading it as madden batting the pitcher 9th but he's more often batting them 8th except in certain situations (he gave an interview about it, if you want the specifics, you can get them from his own words). if madden is batting the pitcher 8th as a sabermetrics manager, it is doing fine work.

since not all sabermetric managers bat the pitcher 8th and some non-sabermetric managers might do it (even if they are an extreme minority), it's difficult to say it should be exclusive to sabermatrics or that it all sabermetric managers should do the same.

seven · 06-02-2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

that's funny, because only a sabrematrician would bat the pitcher 8th.

seven wrote it backward and dcd i think is reading it as madden batting the pitcher 9th but he's more often batting them 8th except in certain situations (he gave an interview about it, if you want the specifics, you can get them from his own words). if madden is batting the pitcher 8th as a sabermetrics manager, it is doing fine work.

Actually, I think I stated the situation correctly. If you look at the MLB boxscores for the last few weeks for the Cubs, you will see that Maddon has put the pitcher in the 9th spot consistently, which is a change from what he was doing at the start of the season, when he had the pitcher in the 8th spot.

dcd111 · 06-03-2016, 08:34 AM

Seven stated it correctly: in the MLB quickstart, Maddon is a Sabermetric manager and the Cubs' lineup has the pitcher batting eighth. He wanted to change this because apparently Maddon has changed his approach in real life. The only way to "convince" Maddon in the game to bat the pitcher ninth is by switching his style to something other than Sabermetric.

I'm not sure if other factors are at play, but I did a quick experiment and changed a few other NL managers to Sabermetric, all of them started batting their pitcher eighth. Small sample size and all that, but it seems that either the game bases this decision solely on manager style, or that the other necessary conditions are so prevalent that it is functionally based on style alone. This approach seems a bit simplistic, as Sabermetric managers in real life aren't always going to bat their pitcher eighth, but perhaps the developers felt that trying to tease out the other factors that go into the decision wasn't worth the effort, or I'm wrong and there are other factors being considered by the game that just didn't come into play in my very brief and limited experiment.

NoOne · 06-03-2016, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seven

Actually, I think I stated the situation correctly. If you look at the MLB boxscores for the last few weeks for the Cubs, you will see that Maddon has put the pitcher in the 9th spot consistently, which is a change from what he was doing at the start of the season, when he had the pitcher in the 8th spot.

Ah, he is "pleased with russell's development..." - news article(s) about it for 2016. he doesn't think russell needs the front of the order protection, now. the previous article i read was from june 2015, and he was almost exclusively batting the pitcher 8th.

even a sabermatricians should not be expected to always do it. i think maddon has sabermetric leanings and should be categorized as one in a video game, but more accurately he's just willing to be open-minded than an average mlb manager.

edit: workaround?

so, use legacy mode (global settings) or use "prevent ai from changing roster" in team settings for the mlb team only? not sure if it also affects minors, but if not that is the benefit compared to legacy mode. after you ask the manager to set the lineups, switch the 8-9 spots... keep the subbing the same and it should be as if the manager set it up.

seven · 06-04-2016, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcd111

Seven stated it correctly: in the MLB quickstart, Maddon is a Sabermetric manager and the Cubs' lineup has the pitcher batting eighth. He wanted to change this because apparently Maddon has changed his approach in real life. The only way to "convince" Maddon in the game to bat the pitcher ninth is by switching his style to something other than Sabermetric.

I'm not sure if other factors are at play, but I did a quick experiment and changed a few other NL managers to Sabermetric, all of them started batting their pitcher eighth. Small sample size and all that, but it seems that either the game bases this decision solely on manager style, or that the other necessary conditions are so prevalent that it is functionally based on style alone. This approach seems a bit simplistic, as Sabermetric managers in real life aren't always going to bat their pitcher eighth, but perhaps the developers felt that trying to tease out the other factors that go into the decision wasn't worth the effort, or I'm wrong and there are other factors being considered by the game that just didn't come into play in my very brief and limited experiment.

Thanks! I took your advice and set Maddon and his bench coach to be Conventional instead of Sabermetric, and then asked them for batting orders again. This produced orders with pitchers in the 9 spot. Of course, some other things will change as well, but I'm going to try this approach for now.

06-01-2016, 09:36 PM	#1
seven All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Victoria, Canada Posts: 653	Changing lineups I'm playing the current MLB season in commissioner mode and want to alter the Cubs' starting lineups so that the pitcher bats in position 9, rather than 8, given that the Cubs' manager in real life seems to be doing that consistently now. I can't seem to figure out how to do this. I am not the general manager of the Cubs, so is there any way I can make this change as an "outsider"?

06-02-2016, 01:25 PM	#3
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	that's funny, because only a sabrematrician would bat the pitcher 8th. i'm sure it's happened before LaRussa and Madden did it, but they have done it the most by HUGE amounts. so, it is definitely not Conventional or traditional in nature. seven wrote it backward and dcd i think is reading it as madden batting the pitcher 9th but he's more often batting them 8th except in certain situations (he gave an interview about it, if you want the specifics, you can get them from his own words). if madden is batting the pitcher 8th as a sabermetrics manager, it is doing fine work. since not all sabermetric managers bat the pitcher 8th and some non-sabermetric managers might do it (even if they are an extreme minority), it's difficult to say it should be exclusive to sabermatrics or that it all sabermetric managers should do the same. Last edited by NoOne; 06-02-2016 at 01:28 PM.

06-02-2016, 09:27 AM	#2
dcd111 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 131	I believe it is related to the manager's style and ratings. I'm not sure what combination specifically causes the description to say that he will consider having the pitcher hit in the 8th spot. But in this particular case I fiddled with an MLB quickstart because I was curious and it seems changing Maddon from Sabermetric to Conventional in the editor will have the effect you are looking for.

06-03-2016, 08:34 AM	#5
dcd111 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 131	Seven stated it correctly: in the MLB quickstart, Maddon is a Sabermetric manager and the Cubs' lineup has the pitcher batting eighth. He wanted to change this because apparently Maddon has changed his approach in real life. The only way to "convince" Maddon in the game to bat the pitcher ninth is by switching his style to something other than Sabermetric. I'm not sure if other factors are at play, but I did a quick experiment and changed a few other NL managers to Sabermetric, all of them started batting their pitcher eighth. Small sample size and all that, but it seems that either the game bases this decision solely on manager style, or that the other necessary conditions are so prevalent that it is functionally based on style alone. This approach seems a bit simplistic, as Sabermetric managers in real life aren't always going to bat their pitcher eighth, but perhaps the developers felt that trying to tease out the other factors that go into the decision wasn't worth the effort, or I'm wrong and there are other factors being considered by the game that just didn't come into play in my very brief and limited experiment.