Speed Rating -> SBs

[SMPatin]

Does anyone know how speed rating correlates to SBs?

Obviously, Attempts factor in based on coaches/player/etc., but in general...

Is 100 speed = 5-8 SBs? 200 = 40+? Etc, etc.

[Curve Ball Dave]

There are guys who can win a 50 yard dash against anyone any time, but that doesn't mean they can steal bases. Stealing bases is all about reading the pitcher's move, picking the right pitch, getting a good jump, and having a fast first step. It's more than just running fast. That is why a guy can have good speed but be a great base stealer, or have great speed and not be a good base stealer at all.

[RchW]

Speed may not be irrelevant but stealing ability is shown by the stealing rating. IRL there are plenty of fast guys who can't steal at all.

[rudel.dietrich]

Speed is simply the number of times a player attempts to steal. Base stealing is there success rate.

You can have a slow player with a high steal rating who will steal 10-15 times a year but over a 90% rate
And a 200 speed player with a steal rating of 1 attempt 150 steals a year with a success rate of under 20%

[RchW]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Speed is simply the number of times a player attempts to steal. Base stealing is there success rate.

You can have a slow player with a high steal rating who will steal 10-15 times a year but over a 90% rate
And a 200 speed player with a steal rating of 1 attempt 150 steals a year with a success rate of under 20%

Hmmm not really. A player with a 1 steal rating will never get to steal that often. That would be controlled by strategy settings. However the high steal rating player absolutely should have more attempts.

I don't see extremes like that anyway.

[baseballonly]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Speed is simply the number of times a player attempts to steal. Base stealing is there success rate.

You can have a slow player with a high steal rating who will steal 10-15 times a year but over a 90% rate
And a 200 speed player with a steal rating of 1 attempt 150 steals a year with a success rate of under 20%

Is this confirmed? Like have you done any testing on this hypothesis?

[t-bone shuffle]

I'm about certain it goes like this (using my words for brevity sake):

Baserunning Skills = baserunning acumen. Not associated w actual foot-speed necessarily. Judgement, taking the extra base, etc. A scouted rating, not a hard number generated by stats or experience. Again to the point above, "foot-speed" is not a requirement here, A player can easily be a strong base runner without being "fast". Accurately so.

Running Speed = Base Stealing jump/lead ability. Again not associated w actual timed foot-speed. A low rating here simply means the player in question will not have a lot of SB attempts.

Stealing Ability = SB success rate.

So, the SB leaders will for example have both a high Speed and Steal rating. A player who say, is successful on 12 of 15 attempts would have a low Speed and a high Stealing (think Rizzo '15 17 of 23).

Again, this is my "understanding", but it's been this player creation "formula" for as long as I can remember.

Which leads me to one of my pet peeves with player creation/assessment model. The failure to incorporate or assess a player's simple, raw "foot-speed" is a flaw. IRL, players are timed in their home to first (30yd) and 1st to 3rd (60yd) speed both on field and off. It is a fact that players who are considered for either draftability or NCAA division 1 play are always scouted/tracked for "speed". There are certain thresholds that virtually eliminate a player from being considered for these levels. Unfortunately, the OOTP player model does not replicate this, nor does it associate simple, basic foot-speed with the various ratings that are at least partially dependent upon it (OF range for example).

I wont go any further on this and if my understanding here is incorrect, I'll be happy to learn it. It's just one man's opinion speaking from experience. It's not a great issue, nor does it diminish my enjoyment of this series (since the beginning, btw). It's just a flaw, that I'm not sure many newer users truly understand.

[Painmantle]

Copy and pasted directly from the OOTP17 Manual

There are six other offensive ratings that don't quite fit in the batting, pitching, or defensive categories: Running Speed, Stealing Bases, Baserunning Instincts, Sacrifice Bunt, Bunt for Hit, and Hitter Type. Unlike hitting and pitching ratings, these other ratings do not have corresponding potential ratings. Other ratings can be seen on the Player Profile, the Ratings page. There is no default view with all of these ratings, but you could easily create a custom view for that purpose.


Running Speed
Running Speed is a measure of how quickly a player can run from one base to the next. Players with a high rating in Running Speed are more of a threat to steal bases, and are more likely to advance further on a ball in play. Running Speed is strictly for offensive play. For example, Running Speed does not factor into an outfielder's range. However, Running Speed and Defensive Range are linked internally. For example, as a player ages, his speed and range will generally decline at the same pace.


Stealing Bases
Stealing Bases is a measure of how good a player is at stealing. Stealing bases is not a matter only of speed, but also timing, knowledge of pitchers, and ability to 'get a good jump.' It is possible for a player to have a high Running Speed rating, but a low Stealing Bases rating, and vice versa, although the most dangerous baserunners have high ratings in both. A combination of strategy settings for stealing bases and Running Speed is used to determine how often a runner is given a "green light" to steal a base. Speed and pitcher Hold Rating then determine how good a jump the runner gets. If he gets a good jump and goes (ie a stolen base attempt) the Catcher Arm, pitcher Hold Rating, the type of pitch and Stealing Bases rating are the factors which determine whether the runner is safe.


Baserunning Instincts
Baserunning Instincts is a measure of a player's instincts when running the bases. Players with a high rating in Baserunning Instincts are more likely to take advantage of fielder miscues to advance a base, and less likely to get thrown out due to baserunning mistakes.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Copy and pasted directly from the OOTP17 Manual

Thanks for that, suppose I should have thought of it.

I'll stand by my rant regarding "foot-speed", etc. though.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Speed is simply the number of times a player attempts to steal. Base stealing is there success rate.

You can have a slow player with a high steal rating who will steal 10-15 times a year but over a 90% rate
And a 200 speed player with a steal rating of 1 attempt 150 steals a year with a success rate of under 20%

No, this is not right, though I've read it quite a few times in the past. I tried to do a regression on OOTP SB/CS output to work out how Speed and Steal translate into SB attempts and SB success rate, and the results were too messy to parse. But what I learned was that there are no simple correlations; a guy with high Speed and high Steal will attempt to steal way more bases than a guy with high Speed and low Steal. The two ratings interact with each other.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by injury log

No, this is not right, though I've read it quite a few times in the past. I tried to do a regression on OOTP SB/CS output to work out how Speed and Steal translate into SB attempts and SB success rate, and the results were too messy to parse. But what I learned was that there are no simple correlations; a guy with high Speed and high Steal will attempt to steal way more bases than a guy with high Speed and low Steal. The two ratings interact with each other.

There's a strategy element involved here too, particularly with your High Speed/Low Steal example. One should naturally be less inclined to steal with a lower rated Base Stealing player, regardless of his ability to generate a lead/jump. And as noted above, the P's hold rating and Cs arm influence the numbers/results as well.