Why are historical draft players so awful now? - Page 2

actionjackson · 03-20-2016, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

That's not how it works in real life and not how it should work here.

A high school kid with average contact and great power POTENTIAL should have 30 and 40 for current and 50 and 70 for potential. If it doesn't something's wrong.

IRL, the draft is an utter crapshoot. That may be what this is trying to reflect.

malichai11 · 03-20-2016, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I am not talking about playing with scouting. I never do. I am talking about that specific setting. If you take a high schooler and compare him against big leaguers right away, which is what that setting does, he will look like dogpoop. Whereas if you change that setting to "Rookie League Level (R)" or whatever it is (temporarily), they will look much better because now you are comparing them moreso against their peers.

It has nothing to do with "how he looks." I'm talking about the omnipotent game engine. If you put all of these players in a game engine, which knows what their actual real potential is, Darryl Strawberry's potential would look pretty amazing, because the all-seeing eye of the game engine KNOWS his potential is a really good player.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-20-2016, 09:44 AM

I am looking into it. Expect this to be fixed in the new beta later today

tward13 · 03-20-2016, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

IRL, the draft is an utter crapshoot. That may be what this is trying to reflect.

IF IF IF I had scouting on, SOME of these players would be misrated because of scouting.

I have scouting OFF. I should get their true scouting POTENTIAL.

Jimmy Wynn and Rusty Staub should not have 40s all over the place

tward13 · 03-20-2016, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I am looking into it. Expect this to be fixed in the new beta later today

Thanks Markus, I will stand down.

Habsfan18 · 03-20-2016, 09:46 AM

In one of my test leagues, 1994 I think it was..Carlos Delgado was another minor leaguer with pretty low potential. 3 stars using that system, I believe. Based on his potential ratings, he didn't look like he was going to become anything other than MLB average.

actionjackson · 03-20-2016, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

IF IF IF I had scouting on, SOME of these players would be misrated because of scouting.

I have scouting OFF. I should get their true scouting POTENTIAL.

Jimmy Wynn and Rusty Staub should not have 40s all over the place

I have scouting off too.

Markus Heinsohn · 03-20-2016, 10:23 AM

Founf the issue. Fixed.

malichai11 · 03-20-2016, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Founf the issue. Fixed.

Awesome! I'd assumed this was going to be an intensive, database fix that would require going through player-by-player or worse, was a philosophical change that was occurring between OOTP 16 to 17. I never should've doubted y'all!

NYYANKS98 · 03-20-2016, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I have scouting off too.

Jesus Christ man, reading your replies to this thread hurt my head. You realize the potential rating is their max peak abilities, right? I don't even understand what logic your posts were operating saying someone's potential is a 20 when they come out of high school. That's what their CURRENT rating is for.

actionjackson · 03-21-2016, 01:49 PM

I would like to apologize to everyone in this thread. Something was obviously wrong and fortunately for us, Markus has fixed it. I'm sorry if I made you reach for a few extra Excedrin, or whatever your painkiller of choice is, because you felt like you were beating your heads against my brick wall.

That was not my intent. You guys were on to something that was wrong with the game and it must've been upsetting to have me telling you that maybe that was the way it was intended.

I did feel like I was onto something too though, and I'm gonna show you what I was talking about in a second using Dave Stieb from the November, 1977 draft in a game I created last night. The first image is Dave Stieb's ratings relative to MLB, and the second image is Dave Stieb's ratings relative to the Pioneer League (lowest listed level in minor leagues). As you can see there is a stark contrast between the two. I've left the show ratings > Max set to "YES" to accentuate it. He's like superman when you compare him against Pioneer Leaguers, which might be his first stop on his minor league journey to the big leagues. Maybe this would've worked in OOTP 17.1.29 BETA, and maybe it wouldn't have. Thankfully we'll never have to find out because Markus figured out what was up and fixed it. I just thought I would explain where I was coming from and hope you guys can understand.

One thing we can all agree on is that this is the best baseball simulation out there with the most responsive development team out there, and once again they came through. Cheers to that!

Sometimes passion will runneth over, and it did yesterday. For my part in that, I am sorry. Thanks guys.

Airdrop01 · 03-21-2016, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I am looking into it. Expect this to be fixed in the new beta later today

Thank you. Is it now fixed? I haven't had time to check it out...

Never mind...I just saw it is!

GoBucsGo · 03-21-2016, 02:29 PM

So AWESOME that this was fixed! I had an amazing 1992 game going with my Pirates and when I got to the draft I couldn't believe what I was seeing. THANK YOU Markus!

Silent_Thunder · 03-21-2016, 02:40 PM

Glad to see this is fixed, as I'm doing a "What If" playthrough starting in 1919 where all the scoutings and stuff are on and the OOTP dev engine is on instead of recalc. Who will live up to their greatness, who will falter, and will I as Yankees GM be able to poach Ruth?

malichai11 · 03-21-2016, 07:01 PM

I would like to acknowledge actionjackson's apology. I don't remember the last time someone apologized on the internet for being wrong, so thanks for that.

I'm still noticing issues with some players. I really only have some idea of how good REALLY good players are, so there could be issues with all other players, it is just a few that REALLY stand out for me (like the minor league version of Rob Dibble isn't that great and the major league draftee version of him is super awesome). At first I thought it might have something to do with me changing the draft date from December to June, but I started a test league without changing the draft date and ratings differences for the minor league versions of these players was basically unchanged (Dwight Gooden's movement rating is actually slightly better in June than December for the minor league version, actually).
Again, if this is just a philosophical issue, then that's okay, I can just delete the minor league versions of problematical players or manually fix them on a case by case basis. I've been doing that for Dwight Gooden for the past 5 versions of the game or so.

gooden001dwi 1981
Dwight Gooden 17 year old
91-93
Fastball 120
Curveball 141
Slider 56
Changeup 92
Movement 158
Control 94
Stamina 201
Holding Runners 170

goodedw01 1984
Dwight Gooden 19 year old
93-95
Fastball 125
Curveball 147
Slider 59
Changeup 95
Movement 198
Control 108
Stamina 208
Holding Runners 166

Rob Dibble has even larger problems
As a minor league draftee (dibble001rob) his potential ratings according to the editor:
Rob Dibble
95-97
Fastball 171
Slider 146
Movement 150
Control 62
Stamina 13
Holding Runners 114

As a major league draftee (dibblro01) his potential ratings are:
98-100
Fastball 203
Slider 172
Movement 222
Control 82
Stamina 13
Holding Runners 79

Roger Clemens 1982 minor league draftee version
clemen001wil
95-97
Fastball 153
Curveball 130
Slider 99
Changeup 23
Splitter 31
Forkball 61
Movement 199
Control 112
Stamina 193
Holding Runners 113

Roger Clemens 1984 major league draftee version
clemero02
96-98
Fastball 152
Curveball 129
Slider 99
Changeup 23
Splitter 30
Forkball 61
Movement 229
Control 123
Stamina 181
Holding Runners 124

malichai11 · 03-21-2016, 08:25 PM

I'll just keep posting these as they come up until I'm told to stop or put this info someplace else:
Really good reliever Rick Aguilera:
Rick Aguilera 20 year old minor league draftee
aguile001ric
90-92
Fastball 103
Curveball 62
Slider 102
Movement 114
Control 109
Stamina 23
Holding Runners 149

Rick Aguilera 23 year old major league draftee
aguilri01
91-93
Fastball 136
Curveball 89
Slider 116
Movement 146
Control 140
Stamina 11
Holding Runners 143

actionjackson · 03-21-2016, 08:45 PM

@malichai11: If you think these are bugs, you might want to try putting them here (Historical MLB/Minors roster and db issues thread in bug reports section).

malichai11 · 03-21-2016, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

@malichai11: If you think these are bugs, you might want to try putting them here (Historical MLB/Minors roster and db issues thread in bug reports section).

Will do.

mgom27 · 03-22-2016, 07:14 AM

I would take the Rays and Draft then in the end of 97. Also take Random people and include them in 2916.17 and beyond Drafts if could.

03-20-2016, 09:44 AM	#23
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	I am looking into it. Expect this to be fixed in the new beta later today __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

03-20-2016, 10:23 AM	#28
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,803	Founf the issue. Fixed. __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

03-21-2016, 01:49 PM	#31
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	I would like to apologize to everyone in this thread. Something was obviously wrong and fortunately for us, Markus has fixed it. I'm sorry if I made you reach for a few extra Excedrin, or whatever your painkiller of choice is, because you felt like you were beating your heads against my brick wall. That was not my intent. You guys were on to something that was wrong with the game and it must've been upsetting to have me telling you that maybe that was the way it was intended. I did feel like I was onto something too though, and I'm gonna show you what I was talking about in a second using Dave Stieb from the November, 1977 draft in a game I created last night. The first image is Dave Stieb's ratings relative to MLB, and the second image is Dave Stieb's ratings relative to the Pioneer League (lowest listed level in minor leagues). As you can see there is a stark contrast between the two. I've left the show ratings > Max set to "YES" to accentuate it. He's like superman when you compare him against Pioneer Leaguers, which might be his first stop on his minor league journey to the big leagues. Maybe this would've worked in OOTP 17.1.29 BETA, and maybe it wouldn't have. Thankfully we'll never have to find out because Markus figured out what was up and fixed it. I just thought I would explain where I was coming from and hope you guys can understand. One thing we can all agree on is that this is the best baseball simulation out there with the most responsive development team out there, and once again they came through. Cheers to that! Sometimes passion will runneth over, and it did yesterday. For my part in that, I am sorry. Thanks guys. Attached Images

03-22-2016, 07:14 AM	#39
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,536	I would take the Rays and Draft then in the end of 97. Also take Random people and include them in 2916.17 and beyond Drafts if could. __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

03-20-2016, 09:46 AM	#26
Habsfan18 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 2,249	In one of my test leagues, 1994 I think it was..Carlos Delgado was another minor leaguer with pretty low potential. 3 stars using that system, I believe. Based on his potential ratings, he didn't look like he was going to become anything other than MLB average.

03-21-2016, 02:29 PM	#33
GoBucsGo Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 278 Infractions: 0/2 (4)	So AWESOME that this was fixed! I had an amazing 1992 game going with my Pirates and when I got to the draft I couldn't believe what I was seeing. THANK YOU Markus!

03-21-2016, 02:40 PM	#34
Silent_Thunder Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 235	Glad to see this is fixed, as I'm doing a "What If" playthrough starting in 1919 where all the scoutings and stuff are on and the OOTP dev engine is on instead of recalc. Who will live up to their greatness, who will falter, and will I as Yankees GM be able to poach Ruth?

03-21-2016, 07:01 PM	#35
malichai11 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 282	I would like to acknowledge actionjackson's apology. I don't remember the last time someone apologized on the internet for being wrong, so thanks for that. I'm still noticing issues with some players. I really only have some idea of how good REALLY good players are, so there could be issues with all other players, it is just a few that REALLY stand out for me (like the minor league version of Rob Dibble isn't that great and the major league draftee version of him is super awesome). At first I thought it might have something to do with me changing the draft date from December to June, but I started a test league without changing the draft date and ratings differences for the minor league versions of these players was basically unchanged (Dwight Gooden's movement rating is actually slightly better in June than December for the minor league version, actually). Again, if this is just a philosophical issue, then that's okay, I can just delete the minor league versions of problematical players or manually fix them on a case by case basis. I've been doing that for Dwight Gooden for the past 5 versions of the game or so. gooden001dwi 1981 Dwight Gooden 17 year old 91-93 Fastball 120 Curveball 141 Slider 56 Changeup 92 Movement 158 Control 94 Stamina 201 Holding Runners 170 goodedw01 1984 Dwight Gooden 19 year old 93-95 Fastball 125 Curveball 147 Slider 59 Changeup 95 Movement 198 Control 108 Stamina 208 Holding Runners 166 Rob Dibble has even larger problems As a minor league draftee (dibble001rob) his potential ratings according to the editor: Rob Dibble 95-97 Fastball 171 Slider 146 Movement 150 Control 62 Stamina 13 Holding Runners 114 As a major league draftee (dibblro01) his potential ratings are: 98-100 Fastball 203 Slider 172 Movement 222 Control 82 Stamina 13 Holding Runners 79 Roger Clemens 1982 minor league draftee version clemen001wil 95-97 Fastball 153 Curveball 130 Slider 99 Changeup 23 Splitter 31 Forkball 61 Movement 199 Control 112 Stamina 193 Holding Runners 113 Roger Clemens 1984 major league draftee version clemero02 96-98 Fastball 152 Curveball 129 Slider 99 Changeup 23 Splitter 30 Forkball 61 Movement 229 Control 123 Stamina 181 Holding Runners 124

03-21-2016, 08:25 PM	#36
malichai11 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 282	I'll just keep posting these as they come up until I'm told to stop or put this info someplace else: Really good reliever Rick Aguilera: Rick Aguilera 20 year old minor league draftee aguile001ric 90-92 Fastball 103 Curveball 62 Slider 102 Movement 114 Control 109 Stamina 23 Holding Runners 149 Rick Aguilera 23 year old major league draftee aguilri01 91-93 Fastball 136 Curveball 89 Slider 116 Movement 146 Control 140 Stamina 11 Holding Runners 143

03-21-2016, 08:45 PM	#37
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,179	@malichai11: If you think these are bugs, you might want to try putting them here (Historical MLB/Minors roster and db issues thread in bug reports section).