historical minors - how does it work? - Page 2

Eugene Church · 02-28-2016, 04:58 PM

Will I be able to play just the Texas League and the Southern Association seasons in isolation?... meaning I will not use any other leagues.

I just want to play these two leagues and have the champions of each play for the Double A title in the Dixie Series.

Will I be able to start in 1920 and just play each season in succession without having to manually change rosters for each new season to incorporate the players for that new season?

Will the new rosters each season include real players that played in that particular year?

How accurate are the minor league rosters that are created by OOTPB?

Will the league schedules be authentic and include Sunday doubleheaders?

Spritze · 02-28-2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

Will I be able to play just the Texas League and the Southern Association seasons in isolation?... meaning I will not use any other leagues. Probably

I just want to play these two leagues and have the champions of each play for the Double A title in the Dixie Series.

Will I be able to start in 1920 and just play each season in succession without having to manually change rosters for each new season to incorporate the players for that new season? No, real minor league transactions are not included

Will the new rosters each season include real players that played in that particular year? Only in Year 1

How accurate are the minor league rosters that are created by OOTPB? As accurate as BBref. SABR chose not to share their minor league information

Will the league schedules be authentic and include Sunday doubleheaders? Schedules are available in the Mods forum

As best as can be determined. Not all of these possibilities have been beta tested yet AFAIK.

swampdragon · 02-29-2016, 11:59 AM

Here is a link to BB Reference showing affiliations for every year. 1932 seems to be the first season that affiliations were really widespread, according to BB Reference. I suspect BB Reference is not complete on this.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/re....cgi?year=1932

swampdragon · 02-29-2016, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

As best as can be determined. Not all of these possibilities have been beta tested yet AFAIK.

I wonder how big a real minor leagues transactions file would be. The mind boggles.

thehef · 02-29-2016, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Here is a link to BB Reference showing affiliations for every year. 1932 seems to be the first season that affiliations were really widespread, according to BB Reference. I suspect BB Reference is not complete on this.

1932 Minor League Affiliations | Baseball-Reference.com

Actually, a source I have that is 10 years old has the exact same affiliations for 1932 as BB ref does now (same w another long-ago year, 1938, chosen randomly). So my guess is while there always research to be done that could unearth add'l info on independent and foreign league/teams, as far as teams that were affiliated w MLB, changes are unlikely... I could be wrong...

thehef · 02-29-2016, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I wonder how big a real minor leagues transactions file would be. The mind boggles.

Mind-boggingly massive, for sure. Yet it would be dwarfed by the work involved - which would be a bit complicated by the fact that records of many of these txns simply don't exist - in putting it together.

swampdragon · 02-29-2016, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

Actually, a source I have that is 10 years old has the exact same affiliations for 1932 as BB ref does now (same w another long-ago year, 1938, chosen randomly). So my guess is while there always research to be done that could unearth add'l info on independent and foreign league/teams, as far as teams that were affiliated w MLB, changes are unlikely... I could be wrong...

Check your source for 1931 and see if those are the same. I'm curious to find out whether this is something that caught on in 1932, or whether that's a BB reference thing.

Spritze · 02-29-2016, 01:49 PM

Given that the vast majority of unaffiliated minor league transactions only involved the sale of a players contract from one team to another or minor league trades in which case one would know the players involved or minor league players involved in major league trades this might be possible.

Bigrod · 02-29-2016, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Here is a link to BB Reference showing affiliations for every year. 1932 seems to be the first season that affiliations were really widespread, according to BB Reference. I suspect BB Reference is not complete on this.

1932 Minor League Affiliations | Baseball-Reference.com

Actually affiliations is one area where bb ref is accurate & complete..

swampdragon · 02-29-2016, 02:10 PM

Another silly question, this one about historical minor leagues and recalc. I am assuming that due to the paucity of minor league stats that it would be difficult to use recalc on the minor leaguers? So if I used 1 year recalc and turned development off for the major leaguers as is recommended for maximum accuracy in historical replays, then the minor leaguers would not develop from one season to the next?

(This is perfectly OK. I'm just trying to plan my project. One season in depth will take me at least until OOTP 18 comes out.)

thehef · 02-29-2016, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Check your source for 1931 and see if those are the same. I'm curious to find out whether this is something that caught on in 1932, or whether that's a BB reference thing.

Not a BB reference thing, as far as I know. It matches.

As noted elsewhere, 1932 was when affiliations moved from beyond...

1. Detroit having one affiliate each year (since 1919)
2. The Cardinals having one affiliate from '19 thru '26, then 2, then 3...
3. A few other teams occasionally having one affiliate for a few years

... to (almost) every team having one or two affiliates, a few teams - Cleveland, Detroit, Yankees, Browns - having more than two, and the Cards leading the way with a whopping 11. The Phillies were the holdout, waiting until 1934 for their first affiliate.

swampdragon · 02-29-2016, 02:28 PM

The Cards eventually had close to 40 affiliates, and it drove the great Cardinal teams of the 1930s and 1940s until the other teams caught up.

thehef · 02-29-2016, 02:36 PM

Yep, peak of 31 affiliates in 1940.

Spritze · 02-29-2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I am assuming that due to the paucity of minor league stats that it would be difficult to use recalc on the minor leaguers?

Their are a billion or so minor league stats included in OOTP17 so I am unsure how that translates to a paucity. Please explain.

swampdragon · 02-29-2016, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Their are a billion or so minor league stats included in OOTP17 so I am unsure how that translates to a paucity. Please explain.

I am mostly referring to the oldest minor leagues. Let's go to my home town of Shreveport in 1919. The hitters have no numbers for BB, SB, or Ks. Only two pitchers are listed on the entire team. Between them, they pitched 30+ games out of a season of well over 100 games. Stats obviously get better as you go forward, although BB and Ks are frequently missing for hitters in the 1930s.

But if you're telling me that recalc will be used on the minor leaguers, I'll trust happily in the results.

Spritze · 02-29-2016, 03:10 PM

Think Interstate 50 in Hawaii. There is a bit of an Interstate gap but you can still drive on it as Joe Unknown.

thehef · 02-29-2016, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Think Interstate 50 in Hawaii. There is a bit of an Interstate gap but you can still drive on it as Joe Unknown.

Thus, the magic of the minor league database.

Spritze · 02-29-2016, 03:31 PM

Yup, at least until the gaps get filled. In my library I have the full Shreveport 1919 rosters and stats. BBref does not have them and if SABR did they would not share the information. At some point I hope they make it into the game.

swampdragon · 03-01-2016, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Yup, at least until the gaps get filled. In my library I have the full Shreveport 1919 rosters and stats. BBref does not have them and if SABR did they would not share the information. At some point I hope they make it into the game.

How did you manage to acquire the full Shreveport 1919 rosters and stats? Something tells me I would envy your baseball library. (I can paddle around in ancient Sporting Life or Sporting News issues for hours and be perfectly happy)

Orioles1966 · 03-01-2016, 12:43 PM

Any answer to teams that will have split affiliations?

02-28-2016, 04:58 PM	#21
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,877	Will I be able to play just the Texas League and the Southern Association seasons in isolation?... meaning I will not use any other leagues. I just want to play these two leagues and have the champions of each play for the Double A title in the Dixie Series. Will I be able to start in 1920 and just play each season in succession without having to manually change rosters for each new season to incorporate the players for that new season? Will the new rosters each season include real players that played in that particular year? How accurate are the minor league rosters that are created by OOTPB? Will the league schedules be authentic and include Sunday doubleheaders? Last edited by Eugene Church; 02-28-2016 at 05:00 PM.

02-29-2016, 11:59 AM	#23
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	Here is a link to BB Reference showing affiliations for every year. 1932 seems to be the first season that affiliations were really widespread, according to BB Reference. I suspect BB Reference is not complete on this. http://www.baseball-reference.com/re....cgi?year=1932 __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

02-29-2016, 01:49 PM	#28
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Given that the vast majority of unaffiliated minor league transactions only involved the sale of a players contract from one team to another or minor league trades in which case one would know the players involved or minor league players involved in major league trades this might be possible. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

02-29-2016, 02:10 PM	#30
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	Another silly question, this one about historical minor leagues and recalc. I am assuming that due to the paucity of minor league stats that it would be difficult to use recalc on the minor leaguers? So if I used 1 year recalc and turned development off for the major leaguers as is recommended for maximum accuracy in historical replays, then the minor leaguers would not develop from one season to the next? (This is perfectly OK. I'm just trying to plan my project. One season in depth will take me at least until OOTP 18 comes out.) __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

02-29-2016, 02:28 PM	#32
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	The Cards eventually had close to 40 affiliates, and it drove the great Cardinal teams of the 1930s and 1940s until the other teams caught up. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

02-29-2016, 02:36 PM	#33
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	Yep, peak of 31 affiliates in 1940.

02-29-2016, 03:10 PM	#36
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Think Interstate 50 in Hawaii. There is a bit of an Interstate gap but you can still drive on it as Joe Unknown. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

02-29-2016, 03:31 PM	#38
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Yup, at least until the gaps get filled. In my library I have the full Shreveport 1919 rosters and stats. BBref does not have them and if SABR did they would not share the information. At some point I hope they make it into the game. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

03-01-2016, 12:43 PM	#40
Orioles1966 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 2,869	Any answer to teams that will have split affiliations?