Historical recalc checkbox

[sprague]

This is a suggestion that I made many years ago, but now with the new updates in the historical game I thought I should make it again.

It involves the thread conversation recently with David Watts, and the challenges of players that have one good final season at a young age, and in a recalc game that player will keep those stats perhaps until he is 50. We have stories of the one year wonder winning 350 games or getting 4000 hits.

A suggestion has been to use a combination of recalc, but have player develoement on in some way, but that causes many problems as mentioned, especially with older players such as a Barry Bonds who will go from a star in April to barely being in the lineup in August (due to actual decline compared to his much lower potential ratings)

My suggestion was to have a checkbox on each players page in a historical game. Maybe near the finances or his personality. If you start a recalc game all players in the game, and all that enter have that box checked, so they are subject to yearly recalc. If you are playing development, no one has it and no one entering the game does.

Because each player though has a box on his edit player page, you can then uncheck boxes for certain players. If I want a reclac game, but the one or two year wonders to be the ONLY ones subject to recalc (as really they should be through their career for the others have thier career listed as actual stats) then I unclick them. Or perhaps a development player wants to bring a specific recalc player for some reason, in his league he just checks the box of that player and then he will be under recalc while the rest of the league is not.

It is a feature I have wished for a long while, and is now one of the reasons I don't play historical games. With the new features an addition like this would get me to jump back into it.

Just sharing my thoughts. cheers

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by sprague

This is a suggestion that I made many years ago, but now with the new updates in the historical game I thought I should make it again.

It involves the thread conversation recently with David Watts, and the challenges of players that have one good final season at a young age, and in a recalc game that player will keep those stats perhaps until he is 50. We have stories of the one year wonder winning 350 games or getting 4000 hits.

A suggestion has been to use a combination of recalc, but have player develoement on in some way, but that causes many problems as mentioned, especially with older players such as a Barry Bonds who will go from a star in April to barely being in the lineup in August (due to actual decline compared to his much lower potential ratings)

My suggestion was to have a checkbox on each players page in a historical game. Maybe near the finances or his personality. If you start a recalc game all players in the game, and all that enter have that box checked, so they are subject to yearly recalc. If you are playing development, no one has it and no one entering the game does.

Because each player though has a box on his edit player page, you can then uncheck boxes for certain players. If I want a reclac game, but the one or two year wonders to be the ONLY ones subject to recalc (as really they should be through their career for the others have thier career listed as actual stats) then I unclick them. Or perhaps a development player wants to bring a specific recalc player for some reason, in his league he just checks the box of that player and then he will be under recalc while the rest of the league is not.

It is a feature I have wished for a long while, and is now one of the reasons I don't play historical games. With the new features an addition like this would get me to jump back into it.

Just sharing my thoughts. cheers

This is a very interesting idea. I can give another example of when something like this might come in handy. A player like Hank Greenberg. Hank has a monster career right up to 1940. Then in 1941, he only plays in 19 games due the war. He doesn't return until 1945 and then he only plays in 78 games that year. When using 1 year recalc, the 19 game season basically turns Greenberg into a scrub overnight. Instead of seeing what it would be like if he didn't miss the war year, you get to see him as a pinch hitting bench player. Sprague's suggestion would be a nice way to counter something like this.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

This is a very interesting idea. I can give another example of when something like this might come in handy. A player like Hank Greenberg. Hank has a monster career right up to 1940. Then in 1941, he only plays in 19 games due the war. He doesn't return until 1945 and then he only plays in 78 games that year. When using 1 year recalc, the 19 game season basically turns Greenberg into a scrub overnight. Instead of seeing what it would be like if he didn't miss the war year, you get to see him as a pinch hitting bench player. Sprague's suggestion would be a nice way to counter something like this.

Use "Neutralized Stats". It covers the "gap" years.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Use "Neutralized Stats". It covers the "gap" years.

Ah, but I don't want Ted Williams to all of a sudden start pitching. Nor do I want to see Bob Lemon play the outfield.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Ah, but I don't want Ted Williams to all of a sudden start pitching. Nor do I want to see Bob Lemon play the outfield.

Whoa! That won't happen if you pull him in with the Spritze database. He (Williams) has no pitching stats in that one. Lemon's a different story because he started as a third baseman, went off to the war, and returned as a pitcher, and somewhere in there he's got some OF work as well.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Ah, but I don't want Ted Williams to all of a sudden start pitching. Nor do I want to see Bob Lemon play the outfield.

Why would Neutralized Stats result in these? I've never seen anything like that using Neuts.

Side note: I once had Koufax continue as a dominant starting pitcher well into the mid-70's, and then he became a dominant setup man until his mid-40's / the early 80's.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by thehef

Why would Neutralized Stats result in these? I've never seen anything like that using Neuts.

Side note: I once had Koufax continue as a dominant starting pitcher well into the mid-70's, and then he became a dominant setup man until his mid-40's / the early 80's.

In some of his (Williams') war years, when he wasn't playing IRL, the amount of pitching games exceeds the amount of games at any other position when using Neutralized Stats, therefore he will be a pitcher in those seasons. This doesn't happen with the Spritze database because Williams doesn't get credit for pitching any games when using Neutered Stats with the Spritze version of Williams.

[actionjackson]

@David Watts: Are there any other players that have these issues? We should keep track and compare notes between the two databases. Maybe even compile a list to see if it can be addressed in the future (perhaps not this version because I'm sure Bigrod, Spritze, and Markus have had enough of $@%&*!^ databases for now ).

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

@David Watts: Are there any other players that have these issues? We should keep track and compare notes between the two databases. Maybe even compile a list to see if it can be addressed in the future (perhaps not this version because I'm sure Bigrod, Spritze, and Markus have had enough of $@%&*!^ databases for now ).

Those were the only 2 I noticed. I mainly use real stats though. I also wonder if using 3 year recalc instead of 1 would make a difference.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Those were the only 2 I noticed. I mainly use real stats though. I also wonder if using 3 year recalc instead of 1 would make a difference.

There are a lot that bounce back and forth between pitching and position player roles in the early days of baseball, but they were actually doing that. It wasn't a case of one seemingly innocent appearance as a pitcher (Williams) mucking things up in his war years.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Those were the only 2 I noticed. I mainly use real stats though. I also wonder if using 3 year recalc instead of 1 would make a difference.

What about Jose Canseco in 1993? Neutralized fielding stats gives him 127.1 innings as a pitcher, even though he only tossed one inning that year. That could cause a problem.

[sprague]

Neutralized stats doesn't actually solve the problem as not every player in that DB has stats continue after a final ml year. a player such as Bill Keister is a prime example. He goes on and on with his 1903 stats line for a long time. Can be hitting .350 as a 40 year old

The other issue I have with neutralized stats is that the actual compiler is basing the ballpark into the revised stat, but the OOTP historical ballparks don't specifically match the averages used to make the neutered stats.

To play with regular stats means the ballpark is already factored into the real life stats as long as the player sort of follows a normal career with a real team.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by sprague

Neutralized stats doesn't actually solve the problem as not every player in that DB has stats continue after a final ml year. a player such as Bill Keister is a prime example. He goes on and on with his 1903 stats line for a long time. Can be hitting .350 as a 40 year old

The other issue I have with neutralized stats is that the actual compiler is basing the ballpark into the revised stat, but the OOTP historical ballparks don't specifically match the averages used to make the neutered stats.

To play with regular stats means the ballpark is already factored into the real life stats as long as the player sort of follows a normal career with a real team.

Neutralized Stats is supposed to remove the ballpark the player played in IRL as a factor in his stats output. Real Stats leaves it in there, and takes the stats as they are at face value.

As for the Keister issue, playing with development on as well as recalc set to whatever you have recalc set to should solve that. Some guys will fall off a cliff after their RL stats run out. Others will go on performing at a high level. It's all at the mercy of the player development engine once those RL stats run out, as it should be because there are no stats to say otherwise.

[Germaniac]

I think this affects only a handful of players ... most recently a Sandy Koufax (who retired in his prime) or a Lyman Bostock (who died when he neared his prime) ...

But if the option was added - I don't think I would use it