Quick questions thread

[josephyw]

Originally Posted by Stormsky

Just starting out playing the game in historical mode. Few quick questions.
4. I am not really understanding the training part of the game right now. Is there harm in letting the AI handle it for now? Or is there a good explanation of it around somewhere?

I strictly play in an online expanded custom league, so I can only address this question. The manual has a pretty good explanation here: Out of the Park Developments Online Manuals

[Stormsky]

Originally Posted by josephyw

I strictly play in an online expanded custom league, so I can only address this question. The manual has a pretty good explanation here: Out of the Park Developments Online Manuals

Thanks. I have read the manual, but I suppose I am still not sure of what "the right thing" is to do.

For example, do I want to always keep the number of points at 20? It seems to me that I can increase the total number of points going into players by going down to 12-14 or so.

Should the focus be on young players? I kind of figure the players getting the most attention should be those I plan to keep for a while, but beyond that I am not so sure.

When it comes to offensive/defensive training is there a way to know how much better a player might get without checking the potential values? Someone may be listed as a 4 star potential, but I am not sure if most of the improvement will come from improving offensive or defensive attributes.

Also, while I am at it, what exactly is the potential values, like 745? It's not the sum of the attributes, since the numbers are off. Does it translate to attributes in some other way?

[josephyw]

Originally Posted by Stormsky

Thanks. I have read the manual, but I suppose I am still not sure of what "the right thing" is to do.

For example, do I want to always keep the number of points at 20? It seems to me that I can increase the total number of points going into players by going down to 12-14 or so.

Should the focus be on young players? I kind of figure the players getting the most attention should be those I plan to keep for a while, but beyond that I am not so sure.

When it comes to offensive/defensive training is there a way to know how much better a player might get without checking the potential values? Someone may be listed as a 4 star potential, but I am not sure if most of the improvement will come from improving offensive or defensive attributes.

Also, while I am at it, what exactly is the potential values, like 745? It's not the sum of the attributes, since the numbers are off. Does it translate to attributes in some other way?

I think part of the fun of games like this is developing a plan for your team and carrying out that plan--that's what being a GM is all about. If you want a limited number of players to develop faster at the expense of others, then keep it at 20. If you want more even distribution, divide it further. If you want to focus on youth while older players slide, do that. If you have a long-term plan and only want to invest in players that you anticipate being on your team long-term, focus on them. If you are in win-now mode and you can't risk an aging player losing attribute points, no matter their future with your squad, then keep them pumped.

Additionally, I think more of the fun is in the pleasant surprises--experimenting and seeing what works. In the real world, GMs and coaches can't know in a quantifiable way exactly how good a player will get, though they can use data and projections and give it their best guess. That said, a player's "primary role" is the best indicator of how they will progress in different areas (e.g., "goalscorer" vs. "two-way forward").

If your only focus is "beating" the game by winning a Stanley Cup, then I think you're going to rob yourself of a lot of the fun that games like this have to offer. Think like a GM. Play the game like a GM. Build a team in your image and see how they do.

[Stormsky]

Thanks, your answer makes sense. I'm not so much interested in "beating" the game as I am in understanding the mechanics. I've played a lot of EHM and just want to make sure that I understand the differences.

I have just a few other questions, I think they got buried on the previous page, so let me re-post them quickly:

Just starting out playing the game in historical mode. Few quick questions.

1. Will teams change names/relocate at appropriate times? This also means I would need to add new jerseys at that time, right?

2. Is there a reason not to hire as many assistant coaches/scouts as possible given the budget? AI teams seem to stick with 1 assistant and 4 coaches.

3. The salary cap is set to 70mil (the 2013-14 value I think) while most teams budgets are around 20mil (this is 2005-2006). Does the cap change or does it stay static? And do player salary expectations go up over time or not?

4. I understand that the 16/17 year olds get created and dumped into free agency to be drafted a year later. When scouting them should I set the scout to NHL or free agents or just check the draft box?

Thanks for the answers, so far the game is awesome.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Stormsky

1. Will teams change names/relocate at appropriate times? This also means I would need to add new jerseys at that time, right?

Yes, and yes, assuming you're using modded jerseys (the generic ones will change on their own.) Automatic updating of mod jerseys that are present at the start of the game is on our to-do list, but for now you'll need to change them manually.

2. Is there a reason not to hire as many assistant coaches/scouts as possible given the budget? AI teams seem to stick with 1 assistant and 4 coaches.

Staff budget is the main constraint, but adding extra coaches isn't necessarily productive - only the top-rated ones (and the head coach) in a given category will affect improvement in that category.

3. The salary cap is set to 70mil (the 2013-14 value I think) while most teams budgets are around 20mil (this is 2005-2006). Does the cap change or does it stay static? And do player salary expectations go up over time or not?

The budget numbers get adjusted by the historical dollar converter (which, for the sake of playability doesn't match exact values from each season perfectly); at the moment the cap number doesn't. I've been going back and forth about what to do about that, since it tends to neuter the effectiveness of the cap in some years, as you're seeing. Right now I think I'm probably going to wind up adjusting the historical dollar translation values in the next update instead of tying the cap to the converter (I also found some surprisingly precise late 70's salary data while digging through my old magazine collection, so I want to get that in as well.)

4. I understand that the 16/17 year olds get created and dumped into free agency to be drafted a year later. When scouting them should I set the scout to NHL or free agents or just check the draft box?

The draft box will get you the most focused effort on the guys eligible for the upcoming draft. Free agents will include non-draftable free agents, so that'll spread your scouts a little more thin. NHL will only target guys actually playing in the NHL.

[Mike D]

I tried searching this thread but didn't see it. I'm playing on a Mac to start with, but how do I make a trade? I go into the trade screen, select a team, see they need a goalie. Now what? I can't drag a player to the screen and I can't right click on a name...

[Stormsky]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Yes, and yes, assuming you're using modded jerseys (the generic ones will change on their own.) Automatic updating of mod jerseys that are present at the start of the game is on our to-do list, but for now you'll need to change them manually.

Staff budget is the main constraint, but adding extra coaches isn't necessarily productive - only the top-rated ones (and the head coach) in a given category will affect improvement in that category.

The budget numbers get adjusted by the historical dollar converter (which, for the sake of playability doesn't match exact values from each season perfectly); at the moment the cap number doesn't. I've been going back and forth about what to do about that, since it tends to neuter the effectiveness of the cap in some years, as you're seeing. Right now I think I'm probably going to wind up adjusting the historical dollar translation values in the next update instead of tying the cap to the converter (I also found some surprisingly precise late 70's salary data while digging through my old magazine collection, so I want to get that in as well.)

The draft box will get you the most focused effort on the guys eligible for the upcoming draft. Free agents will include non-draftable free agents, so that'll spread your scouts a little more thin. NHL will only target guys actually playing in the NHL.

Thank you Jeff, these are exactly what I wanted to know. I'll make sure to get a Ducks jersey into the folder so that when they change from the Mighty Ducks they get the new jersey and logo.

[G-Nuke]

The option to run a lean custom NHL-AHL-CHL is awesome, but there are a couple omissions:


1) Impossible to expand AHL to give minor league teams to new NHL teams
2) Loading of player and league history data (records, stats, etc...) though oddly enough staff data is there...


Any chance of any of these being filled in soon?

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by Mike D

I tried searching this thread but didn't see it. I'm playing on a Mac to start with, but how do I make a trade? I go into the trade screen, select a team, see they need a goalie. Now what? I can't drag a player to the screen and I can't right click on a name...

If you're making a 1 for 1 trade offer, you should be able to click on their name > go to the Action Box and put in them in the trade.

I will look for another answer for you however.

Originally Posted by G-Nuke

The option to run a lean custom NHL-AHL-CHL is awesome, but there are a couple omissions:


1) Impossible to expand AHL to give minor league teams to new NHL teams
2) Loading of player and league history data (records, stats, etc...) though oddly enough staff data is there...


Any chance of any of these being filled in soon?

In Custom Games, it is impossible to "Add" teams to the minor levels after the game has been created. You instead can put them on the "Reserve" list. This acts essentially as a minor league team without say as much.

I will have to get back to you on 2, but my gut reaction is that because it is a custom sim, there is not league history data that should be moved over. It's a custom league.

[G-Nuke]

Originally Posted by Adam B

In Custom Games, it is impossible to "Add" teams to the minor levels after the game has been created. You instead can put them on the "Protected" list. This acts essentially as a minor league team without say as much.

I will have to get back to you on 2, but my gut reaction is that because it is a custom sim, there is not league history data that should be moved over. It's a custom league.

I think you are talking about the reserve list... and they don't play games, it's just a holding ground for players. Minor league expansion in custom games is really a must.


As for point 2... well we've entered kind of a gray zone now... it is a custom sim, but we can use real leagues and real players... why wouldn't we be able to carry over real history? As I said, staff history is already carried over if you look at the staff registry.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by G-Nuke

I think you are talking about the reserve list... and they don't play games, it's just a holding ground for players. Minor league expansion in custom games is really a must.


As for point 2... well we've entered kind of a gray zone now... it is a custom sim, but we can use real leagues and real players... why wouldn't we be able to carry over real history? As I said, staff history is already carried over if you look at the staff registry.

Yes I meant Reserve list. They aren't showing playing actual games, but their development does not stop. You will see them get improvements just like anyone else. Adding minor league expansion is not a must. It works the same as Historical Mode.

[Stormsky]

I am full of questions it seems. In the league menu there are values for goals/game and penalties/game that are set at 6.17 and 11.70 iirc. Are these actual averages the game uses? If so they seem high for the post-lockout era where I am playing. Should I edit them down to 5.75 and 8.5 or thereabouts to get more historical results? Or are they just settings used together with other things to produce accurate results?

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Stormsky

I am full of questions it seems. In the league menu there are values for goals/game and penalties/game that are set at 6.17 and 11.70 iirc. Are these actual averages the game uses? If so they seem high for the post-lockout era where I am playing. Should I edit them down to 5.75 and 8.5 or thereabouts to get more historical results? Or are they just settings used together with other things to produce accurate results?

Those are the averages the game's engine will try to achieve, yeah. In historical they change from season to season to match the real numbers from that year - I'm guessing you're starting in 2005-06 from those numbers? 6.17 was the actual goals per game from that year - between the new obstruction rules and refs calling games super-tight after the lockout, power play opportunities took a huge jump, which pushed scoring back to mid-90's levels.

[Stormsky]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Those are the averages the game's engine will try to achieve, yeah. In historical they change from season to season to match the real numbers from that year - I'm guessing you're starting in 2005-06 from those numbers? 6.17 was the actual goals per game from that year - between the new obstruction rules and refs calling games super-tight after the lockout, power play opportunities took a huge jump, which pushed scoring back to mid-90's levels.

Yeah, its the 05-06 season, which I guess is a bit of an outlier. Will these averages change year to year in the historical game or are they set by the year you start at?

[G-Nuke]

Originally Posted by Adam B

Yes I meant Reserve list. They aren't showing playing actual games, but their development does not stop. You will see them get improvements just like anyone else. Adding minor league expansion is not a must. It works the same as Historical Mode.

There are no minor leagues in historical games AT ALL. In custom leagues you have minor leagues that do not expand, so you have major league teams that never get minor league teams.

In the regular game there was code added to ensure that a new NHL team gets an AHL affiliate when you expand. I understand that this didn't make it in to this version, but it would be an epic fail to not realise that this feature is a natural and a must have for inclusion in custom games.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by G-Nuke

There are no minor leagues in historical games AT ALL. In custom leagues you have minor leagues that do not expand, so you have major league teams that never get minor league teams.

In the regular game there was code added to ensure that a new NHL team gets an AHL affiliate when you expand. I understand that this didn't make it in to this version, but it would be an epic fail to not realise that this feature is a natural and a must have for inclusion in custom games.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I simply stated the fact that if you send someone to the Reserve List in Fantasy or Historical Mode, it does not stop their progression (as it appeared you assume). The game simply understands treats those Reserve List players as though they are playing games in a minor league even though you do not see stats. They still improve as they would if they were playing games with a club.

I understand your frustration, and I'm not the developer, but clearly simply adding teams is causing unnecessary stress on the game/simulation which is likely causing something to break. I would not expect it in the Fantasy Draft, at least not anytime soon.

An "epic fail" is a poor choice of words here. Is it something you would like to see? Okay, but calling out the Developers is not the way to make something happen at any point.

[G-Nuke]

Originally Posted by Adam B

You misunderstood what I wrote. I simply stated the fact that if you send someone to the Reserve List in Fantasy or Historical Mode, it does not stop their progression (as it appeared you assume). The game simply understands treats those Reserve List players as though they are playing games in a minor league even though you do not see stats. They still improve as they would if they were playing games with a club.

I understand your frustration, and I'm not the developer, but clearly simply adding teams is causing unnecessary stress on the game/simulation which is likely causing something to break. I would not expect it in the Fantasy Draft, at least not anytime soon.

An "epic fail" is a poor choice of words here. Is it something you would like to see? Okay, but calling out the Developers is not the way to make something happen at any point.

I wasn't calling out the devs... I have no doubt *they* realise this is a feature that needs to make it into the game.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Stormsky

Yeah, its the 05-06 season, which I guess is a bit of an outlier. Will these averages change year to year in the historical game or are they set by the year you start at?

They'll change each year. If you start in the early 80's, you get the huge goal totals from then, and then it'll gradually decline until you hit deadpuck in the late 90's.

[Stormsky]

Originally Posted by JeffR

They'll change each year. If you start in the early 80's, you get the huge goal totals from then, and then it'll gradually decline until you hit deadpuck in the late 90's.

This is really great. Thanks for answering all the questions.

[Adam B]

Originally Posted by G-Nuke

I wasn't calling out the devs... I have no doubt *they* realise this is a feature that needs to make it into the game.

I will pass your suggestion on.