Historical minor leagues

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

I found a Negro League encyclopedia at the library that gave wonderfully detailed writeups on the Negro League players... I had another Negro Player history book that I used.

I also located a database of Negro League stats and used them.

There's a book out there (1994 copyright- hardback - out of print now) called The Negro Leagues Book - by Dick Clark and Larry Lester. Pretty spendy to get but a library may have a copy, somewhere.

i has no stats in it, but it does have a year by year roster of at least the major Negro League Teams, as well as a list of All-Star games and players. (those are the only stats in the book).

It's amazing how many players played on more than one team in a given year. I guess some of it was winter ball, or barnstorming, but with all the team jumping and lack of a real schedule maybe it's not that amazing after all.

Point being, maybe it's not all that impossible to put together a Negro League. Data is scattered all over, and it'd take a lot of work, but maybe lukasberger was right when he noted Spritze thinks it can be done. Geez. That'd be incredible!!!!! Just another reason to wait to buy 18 or 19 i guess. Of course, that's is i ever get out my my dungeon when 17 arrives! Anyway .... many many thanks to lukasberger for looking into it and the same to Spritze for all the work he's done already and continues. You guys are nearly as incredible as the game itself.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by mgom27

Do we need historical Lineups and Transactions turned so no Transaction Errors happen?

There are no historical transactions for the minors if that's what you mean. Spritze and Bigrod may be magicians as I mentioned last page, but they're not Gods

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

There are no historical transactions for the minors if that's what you mean. Spritze and Bigrod may be magicians as I mentioned last page, but they're not Gods

This leads to my question. I've always thought it would be fun to do a historical replay using real transactions playing as a manager. But, I would want injuries set to normal if not high, modern realistic. Doing this with 16 is pretty hard, as you just don't have the available players to deal with OOTP injuries. Access to the minor league players, would make injuries a non factor. But, something tells me you probably can't use real transactions and the new minor league feature together. Am I right?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by David Watts

But, something tells me you probably can't use real transactions and the new minor league feature together. Am I right?

I haven't tried it, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Ok, just checked on this, looks like 1932 is the first year for the PCL.

Why 1932? Are the schedules accurate? If i were to add the PCL in 1920 what would happen come 1932 to my version of the PCL?

[Orioles1966]

What year did the PCL stop playing those super long seasons(almost as bad as the present MLS which runs from March till the beginning of December)?

[Orioles1966]

Will it be possible to import Historical Minor League Teams to the present day ?

[mgom27]

Maybe then if would help if your were creating a League of Like all Marlins Teams from 94 to 2016. MLB has Historical Options right know in game but we don't have full Minir Leagues other then making Fictional ones or from a past version.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

What year did the PCL stop playing those super long seasons(almost as bad as the present MLS which runs from March till the beginning of December)?

Depends on what you mean by "super-long." The last time the PCL played a schedule longer than the major leagues was 1957. The PCL played 168 games, MLB played 154.

[RMc]

Because I'm a complete lunatic, I recently put together a spreadsheet of all indy teams and leagues since 1993. (I also have logos for all the teams, too, about 90%+ real or real-ish, with the rest I concocted myself.)

For your consideration...Indy BB lgs, 1993-2016xls.xls

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RMc

Because I'm a complete lunatic, I recently put together a spreadsheet of all indy teams and leagues since 1993. (I also have logos for all the teams, too, about 90%+ real or real-ish, with the rest I concocted myself.)

For your consideration...Attachment 439247

I salute your effort. However, I must caution you that there are issues with the records of some clubs due to inconsistencies in sources. I discovered this when trying to compile the first and second half standings for leagues which used the split-season format. I've found several cases where the club's records for each half don't equal the overall record, as well as cases where the won-loss record of a club from its team pitching statistics don't match the record given in the standings. (Note that this issue also affects some affiliated minor leagues as well.)

Here's the list of leagues with issues in their standings that I've found to date.

2004: Atlantic, Arizona, Central, Pioneer, Mexican Leagues
2005: Atlantic, Central, Florida State Leagues
2006: Can-Am League
2008: Golden Baseball League
2009: Golden Baseball League

The GBL in particular is a mess for the two listed seasons. For 2009, for example, the Baseball-Reference standings don't balance for both the first and second halves; the records for Tucson and Yuma as given in the team pitching stats section don't equal the sum of those clubs records from each half. Much the same is true for 2008, though in that case the standings published in the relevant Baseball America Almanac don't balance (BB-Ref doesn't give any standings for 2008, though the club records can be found in the team pitching statistics section).

I find it somewhat flabbergasting that the most basic level of data for a league—the final record of each member club—appears to not have been crosschecked against the club records as given in the team statistics before the data was published. (I use Excel to compile the minor league standings so i can confirm that the overall standings, as well as for each half, balance; I also check to see if the sum of the records from each half for each club equals its overall record. Once the standings are confirmed correct, it's a snap to then copy those numbers of out Excel and paste them into a Word or other text editing app.)

[Spritze]

The number of errors found during the compilation of the minor league stats were legion.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Spritze

The number of errors found during the compilation of the minor league stats were legion.

Player stats? I wouldn't doubt it. SABR itself says that the sum of the player stats probably will never perfectly balance with the sum of the team stats in most seasons; some discrepancies will always be present.

It irks me, however, when the league standings are wrong, because that's the most basic level of league data. That should always be correct. The Encyclopedia of Minor League Baseball may be the gold standard of printed references for the minor leagues, but it's got mistakes. The Sporting News Guide got the 2005 standings wrong for the Florida State League (I was able to find the correct results by using the individual team game-by-game results published on the MILB.com web site.)

I think the folks who compile such things should be told that all standings/club records data must be entered into Excel FIRST to be checked for balancing, and THEN copied into their page layout/web design app. Don't rely on straight transcription; human fingers are often fallible.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Spritze

The number of errors found during the compilation of the minor league stats were legion.

"My name is Legion," he replied, "for we are many."

[thehef]

What ballpark names are given to the minor league teams? As-best-as-can-be-determined accurate ones, decent fake ones (like the game does for fictional, etc.), or some combination?

For a minor league that has been included in the game: If - say - 10 of the 12 teams are affiliated with a major league team, are the two teams that are unaffiliated not included?

For minor leaguer players prior to 1919, and minor leaguers post-1918 whose teams/leagues are not included: Would they simply be non-affiliated players (free agents), or are they not included? Or some combination?

Since minor league historical txns are not available, what drives minor league player movement?

Thanks in advance.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by thehef

What ballpark names are given to the minor league teams? As-best-as-can-be-determined accurate ones, decent fake ones (like the game does for fictional, etc.), or some combination?

Haven't checked. Fictional probably.

Originally Posted by thehef

For a minor league that has been included in the game: If - say - 10 of the 12 teams are affiliated with a major league team, are the two teams that are unaffiliated not included?

They generally are included as well.

Originally Posted by thehef

For minor leaguer players prior to 1919, and minor leaguers post-1918 whose teams/leagues are not included: Would they simply be non-affiliated players (free agents), or are they not included? Or some combination?

Not included.

Originally Posted by thehef

Since minor league historical txns are not available, what drives minor league player movement?

The game engine and the ai.

[Habsfan18]

Wouldn't the unaffiliated clubs try to sign players though? I remember one patch released in 16 where the Red Sox and Mariners DSL clubs were accidentally left unaffiliated in the QuickStart and this lead to those teams signing solid MLB players and basically finishing the season undefeated.

I would hope this won't happen with these unaffiliated clubs.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by The Game

Why 1932?

Because

Originally Posted by The Game

Are the schedules accurate?

Nope.

Originally Posted by The Game

If i were to add the PCL in 1920 what would happen come 1932 to my version of the PCL?

Nothing. It'd keep going and you'd have a second PCL show up in 1932.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Wouldn't the unaffiliated clubs try to sign players though? I remember one patch released in 16 where the Red Sox and Mariners DSL clubs were accidentally left unaffiliated in the QuickStart and this lead to those teams signing solid MLB players and basically finishing the season undefeated.

I would hope this won't happen with these unaffiliated clubs.

I guess exactly how all this works out this remains to be seen.

[Orioles1966]

If someone wanted to start a Historical Minor League before it officially started you could do that as a Fictional League and then transfer all the teams into the real Historical Minor League once it started or vice-a-versa.