SP now CL at start of new season - help understanding why

[Jobermallow]

Ran into an interesting situation in my fictional league and thought I would ask the braintrust here for their interpretation.

I'm the GM of the Portland Roustabouts and last year we won our fourth World Series thanks in large part to the efforts of my #1 pitcher, John Curry. I traded for him six years ago as part of a larger effort to build a championship-caliber team and he has carried more than his fair share of water during that time. Now I know he's approaching the end of his run as a top caliber starter, but I was a little surprised to see that his new role for the 2044 season was as our team's closer.

Here are his career pitching stats (Note- my fictional league plays 122 games a season):



Despite being 34 and losing some of his speed, he turned in his best year ERA/WHIP-wise and managed to increase his strikeouts while also decreasing his walks/HR's to league low levels. He also won the Pitcher of the Year award (called the 'Best Chucker' in my league) for the 2043 season.

On January 2044, this is what his 'Starting Pitcher' profile page looked like:



Now here is what his 'Closer' profile page looks like:



Now I will admit that Curry's stamina has been decreasing slowly over the past few years. He was never a complete game guy to begin with, but he could still get through 5-7 innings a start. His Stuff has been decreasing as well, but his command and control remain as strong as ever. Other than the change in his Stuff ratings between the Starter and Closer profiles, I don't understand why he can't still can't play some role in my starting rotation.

Any thoughts?

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by Jobermallow

Ran into an interesting situation in my fictional league and thought I would ask the braintrust here for their interpretation.

I'm the GM of the Portland Roustabouts and last year we won our fourth World Series thanks in large part to the efforts of my #1 pitcher, John Curry. I traded for him six years ago as part of a larger effort to build a championship-caliber team and he has carried more than his fair share of water during that time. Now I know he's approaching the end of his run as a top caliber starter, but I was a little surprised to see that his new role for the 2044 season was as our team's closer.

Here are his career pitching stats (Note- my fictional league plays 122 games a season):

Attachment 432412

Despite being 34 and losing some of his speed, he turned in his best year ERA/WHIP-wise and managed to increase his strikeouts while also decreasing his walks/HR's to league low levels. He also won the Pitcher of the Year award (called the 'Best Chucker' in my league) for the 2043 season.

On January 2044, this is what his 'Starting Pitcher' profile page looked like:

Attachment 432413

Now here is what his 'Closer' profile page looks like:

Attachment 432414

Now I will admit that Curry's stamina has been decreasing slowly over the past few years. He was never a complete game guy to begin with, but he could still get through 5-7 innings a start. His Stuff has been decreasing as well, but his command and control remain as strong as ever. Other than the change in his Stuff ratings between the Starter and Closer profiles, I don't understand why he can't still can't play some role in my starting rotation.

Any thoughts?

My guess would be that it's his stamina. His stamina's decrease to 35 is really really low I wonder if that means they think he's only a 4/5 inning guy now 6 at best. Seems like it might mean even less. It's gotta be that though I would think.

[Orcin]

I agree that it is probably the stamina. You could force him to be a starter using the player strategy screen and see what happens. If you do, I would also put him on a pitch limit (100?) to make sure he is always rested for his next start.

[captaincoop17]

Yeah it's definitely the stamina.

Under the hood, his stamina likely fell below 50, which is the minimum required for the game to list him as a starter.

[Jobermallow]

Originally Posted by captaincoop17

Yeah it's definitely the stamina.

Under the hood, his stamina likely fell below 50, which is the minimum required for the game to list him as a starter.

You are correct- his Stamina in the editor is 46. Didn't know that part about how the game judges who can start vs. who can't, stamina wise. I've been playing for only a few months now so it's nice to pick up little tips like that.

My big question now is what to do with Curry. I have him for two more years and he can clearly be effective- but for how long? I could try the starting pitcher option with a pitch count and see how that goes for a couple of games. Or I could use him as a back-innings ace, setting it up so that he appears in the 7th and 8th and hands it off to my already talented closer.

He's too good to have pitch just one inning a game, if that, and I already have a talented closer on contract + a good bullpen. Some interesting options here for sure.

[ihatenames]

I'd keep him as a starter for now. Give him 100 pitch count and let him go for a month and see how is innings are going. With his control he should be fairly efficient so I think he'll still give you solid starts. If he gives you 5 or 6 innings every start, he's still more valuable to you than late inning guy. If he's only give you 4 or 5, putting him the pen will give him a boost to his stuff and you'll have a really good late inning setup guy or closer.

I'd also consider the rest of your team. You said your bullpen is already have a good bullpen so their isn't a need there. Do you have a prospect ready to take a spot in the rotation? If not, than to me it's a no brainer to let him start and see how he handles it and then base your decision on that.

[Kent814]

Id just bump his stamina up to around a 60 so that is still isnt giving him too many IP than he normally would but gives you room in case his stamina regresses again because stamina is normally one of the last things to regress

[Walsh06]

Theres a similar player in my league who has 6/7 out of 20 stamina and tends to move between starter and closer each year depending on the team. He has won 3 best pitcher awards at starter and 6 best reliever awards as a closer. Holds most strikeouts in a season and he only played 5/6 innings a game for the year. If he had more stamina hed be the most dangerous pitcher by far. Im just glad he doesnt.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Jobermallow

You are correct- his Stamina in the editor is 46. Didn't know that part about how the game judges who can start vs. who can't, stamina wise. I've been playing for only a few months now so it's nice to pick up little tips like that.

My big question now is what to do with Curry. I have him for two more years and he can clearly be effective- but for how long? I could try the starting pitcher option with a pitch count and see how that goes for a couple of games. Or I could use him as a back-innings ace, setting it up so that he appears in the 7th and 8th and hands it off to my already talented closer.

He's too good to have pitch just one inning a game, if that, and I already have a talented closer on contract + a good bullpen. Some interesting options here for sure.

stamina is something you should pay attention to when you sign a SP. if they only have 1/2 or thereabouts of your scale, they could easily lose some over the course of a long contract.

in the editor i think its 49 / 50 (out of 250) where the AI will change them to a reliever.

this stuff happens on occasion if you don't avoid it to begin with or take a risk on occasion. I'd take my lumps and eat his salary at RP or trade him. this is easier to start planning for... otherwise you have to guess the need each year.

if you use a pitch count, on default setting it will probably lower than 100 pitches to avoid being tired in a game. you'll have to play one of his games out and watch how he responds as his count adds up.

if you want them to push it, i'd suggest 5-10 pitches into "slightly tired" or maybe 5 pitches into fatigued. most games they won't reach that point, but the ones they do are more likely to be good outings that are more likely to be shutouts or comlpete games - if you care about accumulating those stats for that player.

[Hannibal05]

I manage and GM so when I have a pitcher my bench coach thinks should be the closer I just stick him back in the rotation so I haven't really dived into this too deeply. However, I have noticed that not only stamina plays a roll but also the number/type of pitches a pitcher has seems to play a factor as well. A two pitch pitcher, for example, even with good stamina gets moved to the bullpen or if they were a 3 pitch starter but one of the pitches has dropped low due to age or skill decline gets them a bullpen assignment as well. Like I said I haven't really paid that close attention to it because I manage my team but it's just something I've noticed.

[Kent814]

Knuckeballers are the only ones who can start with just 2 pitches, and maybe even one pitch i havent seen one though

[Marsupilami]

im not sentimental, ship him off

[Jobermallow]

Originally Posted by NoOne

stamina is something you should pay attention to when you sign a SP. if they only have 1/2 or thereabouts of your scale, they could easily lose some over the course of a long contract.

in the editor i think its 49 / 50 (out of 250) where the AI will change them to a reliever.

this stuff happens on occasion if you don't avoid it to begin with or take a risk on occasion. I'd take my lumps and eat his salary at RP or trade him. this is easier to start planning for... otherwise you have to guess the need each year.

if you use a pitch count, on default setting it will probably lower than 100 pitches to avoid being tired in a game. you'll have to play one of his games out and watch how he responds as his count adds up.

if you want them to push it, i'd suggest 5-10 pitches into "slightly tired" or maybe 5 pitches into fatigued. most games they won't reach that point, but the ones they do are more likely to be good outings that are more likely to be shutouts or comlpete games - if you care about accumulating those stats for that player.

If I remember correctly, Curry had around 45 stamina when I traded for him six years previous. I knew he wasn't going to give me tons of innings but I also wasn't aware of the 'under the hood' calculation that went into deciding if he could start or not. I've been more than happy with his production thus far and would like to see if he can still contribute meaningful innings as a starter. So a limited pitch count and, perhaps, a short leash for a trial month will probably be in order.

I *should* probably see what I can get for him in a trade but I've grown oddly fond of Curry over the simulated years. He's been exactly what I wanted since I traded for him and his numbers put him in definite HOF consideration territory. Once his run ends the team will need a complete tear-down and hibernation phase to replenish the prospect talent pool as the organization went all-in to build and maintain the roster over the past six seasons. It's probably foolish but I want to see if we can eek out another championship run and give Curry one more (fictional) ring.

Thanks everyone for the insight. I've only come to appreciate Baseball in the past year and OOTP has been revelatory in helping me dig into the deeper levels of the game.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Jobermallow

If I remember correctly, Curry had around 45 stamina when I traded for him six years previous. I knew he wasn't going to give me tons of innings but I also wasn't aware of the 'under the hood' calculation that went into deciding if he could start or not. I've been more than happy with his production thus far and would like to see if he can still contribute meaningful innings as a starter. So a limited pitch count and, perhaps, a short leash for a trial month will probably be in order.

I *should* probably see what I can get for him in a trade but I've grown oddly fond of Curry over the simulated years. He's been exactly what I wanted since I traded for him and his numbers put him in definite HOF consideration territory. Once his run ends the team will need a complete tear-down and hibernation phase to replenish the prospect talent pool as the organization went all-in to build and maintain the roster over the past six seasons. It's probably foolish but I want to see if we can eek out another championship run and give Curry one more (fictional) ring.

Thanks everyone for the insight. I've only come to appreciate Baseball in the past year and OOTP has been revelatory in helping me dig into the deeper levels of the game.

from previous reply to my comment (not jobe):
about the # of pitches and other factors - was just keeping it simple. we were talking about a SP with more than 2 pitches. i could right a book if i had to cover all the relative concepts involved.

if stuff or movement falls enough, and the stamina is still 'low,' i wouldn't be surprised if they a role change candidate. in the editor, when you type 49 it predicts reliever, and 50 predicts SP. what is available on your team is equally important in the decision-making process.

if you won't have money problem from paying a reliever extra $$$, it would be hard to argue to get rid of him.

you can avoid tear downs, if you are not attached to players. if you have draft pick trading on, it's really easy to pull off. regardless you shouldn't have many years missing the playoffs with a well-though out plan.

use the salaries page for a great overview. it's a fluid process. it's not always going to be neat and clean and trade an aging player when he is 35+ in his last year. sometimes they might be 29-32. you won't always replace that player with a better one immediately, if at all. the point is to always have constitent and affordable talent and can always go out and buy that expensive free agent for a short-term contract when needed.

i do like to keep players too, but getting rid of them before the decline is hugely beneficial to the long-term health of your team. sometimes you might win a few less in the first year of changes, but over the next 4-7 years you more than make up for it.

always roll over your prospects that you have no intention to keep. losing them to the rule 5 or as ML FA is not helpful in anyway. at that point trading 3 or 4 for 1 isn't a bad idea.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Kent814

Id just bump his stamina up to around a 60 so that is still isnt giving him too many IP than he normally would but gives you room in case his stamina regresses again because stamina is normally one of the last things to regress

Boo!

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by RchW

Boo!

not too much different than arbitrarily choosing to change LTM to shape an era of your choosing. merely a larger scale. you should be able to relate to this sort of enjoyment from the game.

for the kids reading: this does not promote editting players. don't edit players. editting player is bad. D.A.R.E. to stay off Editting.... JK, edit to your hearts content.... freebase those edits! hmm i guess i should have typed "make edits with no basis!"

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by NoOne

not too much different than arbitrarily choosing to change LTM to shape an era of your choosing. merely a larger scale. you should be able to relate to this sort of enjoyment from the game.

for the kids reading: this does not promote editting players. don't edit players. editting player is bad. D.A.R.E. to stay off Editting.... JK, edit to your hearts content.... freebase those edits! hmm i guess i should have typed "make edits with no basis!"

Well, obviously everyone can play the game however they want. But there is something substantially different about altering LTMs that affect every team equally versus altering a player to benefit your team specifically.

[TGH-Adfabre]

Start him on a pitch count. I would go 90ish, for 10 starts unless he is absolutely getting shelled.