NFL & TBI/Brain Injuries

[MorseMoose]

New: 87 [out of 91] Deceased NFL Players Test Positive for Brain Disease | Concussion Watch | FRONTLINE | PBS

Thoughts?

I know, for me, my kids will never play football.

[psd]

I am certain that former NFL players will have a higher percentage of CTE, but that test is meaningless without a corresponding test of non NFL people of similar body size, age, & other factors to compare to.

Do you watch football Morse?

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by psd

I am certain that former NFL players will have a higher percentage of CTE, but that test is meaningless without a corresponding test of non NFL people of similar body size, age, & other factors to compare to.

Well, yeah...that's science. But if 87 out of 91 pastors came out gay, I'd also say that that means something.

Originally Posted by psd

Do you watch football Morse?

Yes, I do. But 1) I have nowhere near the interest I once had, 2) the entertainment value is like a 3 or a 4; unless it's the Vikings, it's background noise, 3) I wouldn't watch it if there was something else on tv or I had something better to do Sunday at noon. Between the Adrian Peterson scandal for my Vikings, them leading the NFL in arrests, I'd be okay if it all just ended.

[magnet 2.0]

Honestly, what began my decent was years ago. It was this study:
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...ad-impact.html

This doesn't have the results and I'm a bit busy to google harder, but the stat that jumped out at me was that they found that the average hit from the offensive and defensive lines colliding at snap was doing the same to your brain as hitting your windshield with no seatbelt in a 30mph car accident. On every play. It's no wonder linemen talk about seeing double/triple on long drives.

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by magnet 2.0

Honestly, what began my decent was years ago. It was this study:
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...ad-impact.html

This doesn't have the results and I'm a bit busy to google harder, but the stat that jumped out at me was that they found that the average hit from the offensive and defensive lines colliding at snap was doing the same to your brain as hitting your windshield with no seatbelt in a 30mph car accident. On every play. It's no wonder linemen talk about seeing double/triple on long drives.

My descent was...

[Cobra Mgr]

I think the danger is real. Keep in mind though, that study was done on players who already felt they had something & donated their brains to science after their death. If I remember correctly, currently the only way to tell if someone has CTE is on an autopsy. So, the odds were extremely in favor of a large percentage of players to have this condition. Still, that does not discount the fact NFL players are at extreme risk.

[psd]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Well, yeah...that's science. But if 87 out of 91 pastors came out gay, I'd also say that that means something.

It depends entirely on how you look for things. Like Cobra said, these were players that already had felt something. If you asked 91 pastors who felt or thought that they were gay already, 87 really doesn't mean much, does it? I'm not saying that NFL players aren't at a real risk. Of course they are. All I am saying is that number really doesn't mean much. It wouldn't surprise me if it was accurate or even higher. But it also wouldn't surprise me if it was lower. It's just not a true, accurate test.

[monkeystyxx]

This study is basically the same as saying "of the 91 people who went to the doctors with a suspected STI, 87 actually did have an STI!".

Yes, it's dangerous. But it's been dangerous for nearly 100 years now. The only thing that has increased in that time is the number of people trying to blow things out of proportion so that people will visit their website.

It's like when people who go to war get shot, and then everyone is really surprised and angry. What did you *think* was going to happen?

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

This study is basically the same as saying "of the 91 people who went to the doctors with a suspected STI, 87 actually did have an STI!".

Yes, it's dangerous. But it's been dangerous for nearly 100 years now. The only thing that has increased in that time is the number of people trying to blow things out of proportion so that people will visit their website.

It's like when people who go to war get shot, and then everyone is really surprised and angry. What did you *think* was going to happen?

I don't think you realize the whole scope of this issue. CTE is a relatively newly discovered condition that the NFL & NFLPA tried to cover up & denied the condition even existed. Now that proof has been only recently acknowledged, it has caused sweeping changes in how concussions are treated & diagnosed. Movies are being written about its discovery. And rule changes have come to all of team sports. More is yet to come. Not in just the NFL. In every major league in sports & down into the school levels.

You're trivializing the topic.

[monkeystyxx]

I apologise if it came off as trivialising the issue. I'm obviously aware that it's a serious issue. Being a rugby fan it's an issue that comes up a lot, especially being Welsh. George North is a player who's had quite a few such injuries. Didn't mean to trivialise it at all.

And you're correct, I didn't appreciate the scope of the issue entirely.

Obviously it's serious, and of course the NFL should do all they can to protect against it. I just don't think it's something they'll ever be able to eliminate entirely, and getting hit in the head is obviously something that anyone who goes into the sport must know is going to happen to them. A lot.

But yeah, sorry if that post came off at all facetious. It wasn't intended as such.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

I apologise if it came off as trivialising the issue. I'm obviously aware that it's a serious issue. Being a rugby fan it's an issue that comes up a lot, especially being Welsh. George North is a player who's had quite a few such injuries. Didn't mean to trivialise it at all.

And you're correct, I didn't appreciate the scope of the issue entirely.

Obviously it's serious, and of course the NFL should do all they can to protect against it. I just don't think it's something they'll ever be able to eliminate entirely, and getting hit in the head is obviously something that anyone who goes into the sport must know is going to happen to them. A lot.

But yeah, sorry if that post came off at all facetious. It wasn't intended as such.

No problem.

Yeah getting hit in the head is inevitable in a violent sport. But no one knew just how damaging those hits were. 50yr old former players had brains you would expect to see in 80 yr olds. Players can't hold their grandchildren. They can't remember where they live. They are suicidal. All of which is linked to CTE. That's why one poster said they wouldn't let their kids play football. & some former NFL players have said as much. Players are retiring early. The damage to the quality of living is very severe.

[psd]

I have had several Doctors tell me the best way to drastically reduce head injuries in the NFL is to eliminate the helmets. I thought they were nuts. But they all said the same thing. The players would learn how to tackle properly without using their whole body as a spear, which they do now, eliminating using the helmet as a weapon which some players do (cough,cough..Terrell Suggs...cough,cough). They would hit with their shoulder. Yes there would be injuries, & yes some would be catastrophic. But they would be accidental in nature & those happen now anyways. I don't know if i agree, but it sure is something to think about.

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by psd

I have had several Doctors tell me the best way to drastically reduce head injuries in the NFL is to eliminate the helmets. I thought they were nuts. But they all said the same thing. The players would learn how to tackle properly without using their whole body as a spear, which they do now, eliminating using the helmet as a weapon which some players do (cough,cough..Terrell Suggs...cough,cough). They would hit with their shoulder. Yes there would be injuries, & yes some would be catastrophic. But they would be accidental in nature & those happen now anyways. I don't know if i agree, but it sure is something to think about.

I've heard that before and just don't get that. It's like saying, "Eliminate them for motorcyclists and they'll learn to be more careful" or "Don't let your kid ride with a bike helmet as they won't try stupid things."

Accidents happen. To me, helmets are about the accidents. The NFL just needs to enforce or put stricter tackling penalties on the books. Maybe then people will learn to tackle appropriately and the helmets can do their purpose when there is an accident.

And yes, even still there will be major injuries despite the helmet.

[psd]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

I've heard that before and just don't get that. It's like saying, "Eliminate them for motorcyclists and they'll learn to be more careful" or "Don't let your kid ride with a bike helmet as they won't try stupid things."

Accidents happen. To me, helmets are about the accidents. The NFL just needs to enforce or put stricter tackling penalties on the books. Maybe then people will learn to tackle appropriately and the helmets can do their purpose when there is an accident.

And yes, even still there will be major injuries despite the helmet.

Except motorcyclists & bicyclists don't use their helmets as weapons. It's not the same.

The NFL said several years ago they would eliminate the helmet-to-helmet hit. They STILL haven't.

But I agree they need STRICT penalties on helmet hits. First one, 15 yards. Second one,you're out of the game. Third offense of the year, you're gone AND miss the next game. That's what they need to do. And I am only talking about the hits where they clearly launch themselves helmet first at the opponent. Those kind of hits have no place in the game. Eliminate them please.

[MorseMoose]

This is the stuff that should most certainly be illegal

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CPZBooGWsAE7Nla.mp4

[monkeystyxx]

That I would agree with. It's just silly.

[knightdreamer2k]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Well, yeah...that's science. But if 87 out of 91 pastors came out gay, I'd also say that that means something.



Yes, I do. But 1) I have nowhere near the interest I once had, 2) the entertainment value is like a 3 or a 4; unless it's the Vikings, it's background noise, 3) I wouldn't watch it if there was something else on tv or I had something better to do Sunday at noon. Between the Adrian Peterson scandal for my Vikings, them leading the NFL in arrests, I'd be okay if it all just ended.

I agree with you on all points..well except the vikings . The NFL changed the rules a few years back that made it more of a passing league which for me made my interest wan. To add the issue of brain injuries, too many bad apples, just makes me not all that interested.