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Old 07-05-2015, 07:58 AM   #221
Tekneek
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If greenies make you get that many hits, I'm wondering why he was the only one that got that many? Was he the only one taking those? Sheer luck? Does gambling on baseball make you work harder?

His accomplishments as a player speak well enough. These other things should be secondary issues.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:55 PM   #222
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Everyone took greenies; I took greenies. They are nothing to be alarmed about. While not strictly kosher, the difference between taking greenies and doing steroids is like the difference between smoking pot and taking heroin.

I have no doubt Pete took greenies.

But what OTHER performance enhancing drugs do you imply? And it is not a very nice thing to sling around, anyways. Steroids were just not used. If they were readily available and known to enhance performance, I am sure a ton of players would have taken them in the 1970's or the 1870's. But they weren't, and there really wasn't anything to be taking outside of the diet pills.....
Are you actually objecting to a fan on a bulletin board suggesting that Pete Rose might have indulged performance enhancing drugs? That I'm not being very nice to poor Pete? That I might hurt his wittle feewings? That's simply hilarious.

My point is that so many of the same people who want to give Pete a complete pass for putting the integrity of honest competition at risk with his gambling and, worse yet, his close relationships with bookies, would at the same time like to banish Barry Bonds and some Dirty Dozen "PED cheats" from the game permanently. So, I ask: what if we find that Pete took performance enhancers, too? Because contrary to your curt dismissal of the idea, it's certainly not impossible. After all, Pete has demonstrated that he is not a man of integrity, which I think makes him capable of anything, perhaps more so than the average player.
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Old 07-06-2015, 06:59 PM   #223
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If Pete was on steroids, he was sure doing a lousy job of it, considering he was mostly a singles hitter.
Actually, players take steroids not only for the purpose of hitting more home runs. They do it to speed recovery to keep injury time at a minimum and keep themselves in the game. And given Pete was playing over 100 games a year through his age 44 season, including 162 at ages 38, 39 and 41—the only player over the age of 40 to do so—well, I'm not saying there's fire, but there's certainly smoke.
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:13 PM   #224
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My point is that so many of the same people who want to give Pete a complete pass for putting the integrity of honest competition at risk with his gambling and, worse yet, his close relationships with bookies, would at the same time like to banish Barry Bonds and some Dirty Dozen "PED cheats" from the game permanently.

Who are these people?
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:14 PM   #225
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Actually, players take steroids not only for the purpose of hitting more home runs. They do it to speed recovery to keep injury time at a minimum and keep themselves in the game. And given Pete was playing over 100 games a year through his age 44 season, including 162 at ages 38, 39 and 41—the only player over the age of 40 to do so—well, I'm not saying there's fire, but there's certainly smoke.
That is just ridiculous....
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:17 PM   #226
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My point is that so many of the same people who want to give Pete a complete pass for putting the integrity of honest competition at risk with his gambling and, worse yet, his close relationships with bookies, would at the same time like to banish Barry Bonds and some Dirty Dozen "PED cheats" from the game permanently.
You won't find me advocating that position. I'm not really sure how I feel about PEDs in general. On one hand, we should want to protect players from themselves because many (if not all) of these pose serious health risks. On the other, no amount of PEDs will turn a bad baseball player into a good one, so it may be difficult to exactly quantify what they are really "enhancing."
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:25 PM   #227
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Who are these people?
Internet people?
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:51 PM   #228
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That is just ridiculous....
How?
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:55 PM   #229
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Internet people?
Link?
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Old 07-06-2015, 07:57 PM   #230
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Are you actually objecting to a fan on a bulletin board suggesting that Pete Rose might have indulged performance enhancing drugs? That I'm not being very nice to poor Pete? That I might hurt his wittle feewings? That's simply hilarious.
Why should what you say on the internet not be subject to the same rules of decency as any other speech?

Throwing around unsubstantiated accusations is an actionable offense in many cases and criminal in some.

You seem to be suggesting that your comments are free from such rules and considerations because their source imbues them with an inherent worthlessness obvious to all. While that may be true, explain why, if you are aware of this, you are compelled to share them with the rest of us?
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Old 07-06-2015, 09:03 PM   #231
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Even if we assume Rose was using steroids at the end of his career, they weren't put on the 'banned' list until 1991. That might seem like a cop-out / technicality, but a super competitive person is going to use every advantage they can get.

that being said, while Rose hasn't commented on whether he used steroids, there's hearsay quotes of him from '85/'86 declining to try them because "it was too late to try something new" at that point of his career.


long article on the steroid era/investigations, with a brief blurb on Rose:

ESPN.com - E-Ticket: Who Knew?
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Old 07-06-2015, 11:40 PM   #232
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Why should what you say on the internet not be subject to the same rules of decency as any other speech?

Throwing around unsubstantiated accusations is an actionable offense in many cases and criminal in some.

You seem to be suggesting that your comments are free from such rules and considerations because their source imbues them with an inherent worthlessness obvious to all. While that may be true, explain why, if you are aware of this, you are compelled to share them with the rest of us?
Agree.

Also, Greenies (amohetamines) have been replaced now by chugging of red bull. Except for Miguel Tejada and his adderall. (This kills me... I know a coach of a team in 14u major (AAA) who has gotten four kids to start taking that for baseball telling their parents they have trouble "focusing." Seriously.

Anyway...on the Red Bull...Example...before Wade Davis brings his duffel bag full of middle finger FU pitches to the mound, he chugs a lot of red bull.

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Old 07-07-2015, 08:46 AM   #233
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Mantle popped greenies like they were candy and he is in the Hall of Fame. He was also permanently banned by Bowie Kuhn for his employment by a casino while also active as a coach for the Yankees in 1983, yet he remained in the Hall of Fame. By the way, Mantle was being paid to have a "relationship" with gamblers, just so you know.

Still waiting for the long list of "so many people" that want to "give Pete Rose a complete pass" but want to banish Barry Bonds...
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:32 PM   #234
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Why should what you say on the internet not be subject to the same rules of decency as any other speech?

Throwing around unsubstantiated accusations is an actionable offense in many cases and criminal in some.

You seem to be suggesting that your comments are free from such rules and considerations because their source imbues them with an inherent worthlessness obvious to all. While that may be true, explain why, if you are aware of this, you are compelled to share them with the rest of us?
Hey, I'll say it again: Pete Rose took steriods.

Call a cop and have me arrested.
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:37 PM   #235
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Hey, I'll say it again: Pete Rose took steriods.

Call a cop and have me arrested.
Thanks. That answers my question.
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:38 PM   #236
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Still waiting for the long list of "so many people" that want to "give Pete Rose a complete pass" but want to banish Barry Bonds...
Do you honestly believe that there is nobody who believes that Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame despite his gambling violations, but that Barry Bonds should be banned from baseball and the Hall because of his alleged PED usage? I'm not going to consider addressing your request unless you tell me, no lie, that's seriously what you think.
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:44 PM   #237
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Thanks. That answers my question.
You are taking this really seriously, and strangely personally.

This isn't a workplace, or a court of law, or any other intimate interpersonal social gathering. It's a bulletin board of anonymous posters talking about public figures. I'm pretty sure that my saying "When we find out for sure that Pete Rose took greenies and other performance enhancing drugs", whether or not I believe it's true, on an Internet forum is not an actual crime punishable by anything. So trying to frighten me into whatever mode of behavior you want me to exhibit by suggesting it is a crime is falling somewhat short of the mark.
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:53 PM   #238
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You are taking this really seriously, and strangely personally.

This isn't a workplace, or a court of law, or any other intimate interpersonal social gathering. It's a bulletin board of anonymous posters talking about public figures. I'm pretty sure that my saying "When we find out for sure that Pete Rose took greenies and other performance enhancing drugs", whether or not I believe it's true, on an Internet forum is not an actual crime punishable by anything. So trying to frighten me into whatever mode of behavior you want me to exhibit by suggesting it is a crime is falling somewhat short of the mark.
I just like having intelligent conversations, whether they are here or by the water cooler. Apparently, that is not your thing and that's okay.
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:05 PM   #239
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I just like having intelligent conversations, whether they are here or by the water cooler. Apparently, that is not your thing and that's okay.
Well, you know that's not true. But okay, I'll drop it.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:09 PM   #240
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Do you honestly believe that there is nobody who believes that Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame despite his gambling violations, but that Barry Bonds should be banned from baseball and the Hall because of his alleged PED usage? I'm not going to consider addressing your request unless you tell me, no lie, that's seriously what you think.

I don't know who believes it. But you said there are many people that believe it, and I asked you to produce one. You apparently cannot do that.
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