New storyline idea - Page 2

swoboda · 06-18-2015, 02:09 PM

amending my earlier statement, the older I get the more it seems that ethical behavior is optional in any endeavor where there is a lot of money involved. always has been always will be. believe it or not I'm not a cynic by nature

The Wolf · 06-18-2015, 02:20 PM

Uh oh...

Houston Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow refuting details related to hacking probe | FOX Sports

Orcin · 06-18-2015, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The FBI has only mentioned the Cards hacking the Astros, so it's safe to assume it's just them. But this is a major CFAA case involving trade secrets, so there will almost certainly be federal prison time and big fines after the guilty parties are identified and convicted. Then there will likely be MLB lifetime bans, fines, and the loss of draft picks with the Cardinal pool money being reallocated among the 29 innocent teams (so as to avoid any MLBPA issues; draftees would still get the same amount of money, so the MLBPA would have no legitimate gripe).

But mostly the Cardinals have now earned themselves an eternal reputation as disreputable hacking cheaters. That stain is never, ever going away.

Nice try, troll.

The Wolf · 06-18-2015, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

Nice try, troll.

You not liking it doesn't make it untrue or trolling. The Cardinals right now are the dirtiest organization in baseball.

Le Grande Orange · 06-18-2015, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Uh oh...

Houston Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow refuting details related to hacking probe | FOX Sports

Well, denying bad password usage as being part of the matter wouldn't surprise me. Who would want to admit to it? Especially when it led to such serious consequences?

ra7c7er · 06-18-2015, 03:23 PM

It'd be interesting to see what information was changed in Hustons database after Lunhow went over to them. It's not like these guys wipe their memories when they change teams. They retain all that knowledge and use it at their new jobs.

How crazy is it going to be if it's found that the Astros also have a chunk of the Cards database information also.

It's ignorant to assume that when officials who have access to that stuff don't "borrow" a bit when they leave. And that isn't anything to lessen what's happened here. Hacking is hacking and it's bad. Just thinking about a different angle.

Orcin · 06-18-2015, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You not liking it doesn't make it untrue or trolling. The Cardinals right now are the dirtiest organization in baseball.

Keep trolling.

ThatSeventiesGuy · 06-18-2015, 07:21 PM

Unless somebody else gets caught doing the same kind of thing, though, Wolf's right. Period. No amount of homerism erases the stain. Let's not be like Patriots fans after Deflategate - and that was far worse, IMO. If your team cheats, admit they cheated, call 'em on it, put pressure on them to not do it again, and "remove the evil one from your midst", and move on.

I call out Mozeliak for the worst punishment, for the following reasons:

1) I can buy that Matheny and the players/coaches knew nothing. So they're not culpable, unless incriminating evidence comes to light.

2) The owner, DeWitt, SHOULD have known, but since he's more of a hands-off type, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

3) The GM plain NEEDS to know what his underlings are doing. If you don't fire him for cheating, you almost have to fire him for gross incompetence, anyway.

The Wolf · 06-18-2015, 08:27 PM

Exactly. Either the GM was in on it and has to go, or his employees did it on his watch, which means he still has to go. If I was Commissioner I would suspend the entire St. Louis Cardinals front office for the rest of the season immediately.

And this stain will never go away.

Orcin · 06-18-2015, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatSeventiesGuy

3) The GM plain NEEDS to know what his underlings are doing. If you don't fire him for cheating, you almost have to fire him for gross incompetence, anyway.

I don't know anything about your work experience, but I can tell you from my own background that this is totally unrealistic. A manager cannot be expected to know the 24/7 activities of every person working for him. Is he supposed to be in their homes snooping on them? That invasion of privacy would be worse than the alleged crimes.

If the reports are true, the activities took place on a computer in a home shared by several Cardinals employees. It is unknown whether there were multiple employees involved or just one. One lone person working at a computer could be hacking the Astros, surfing porn, or stealing credit cards - and there is no way John Mozeliak, or even the other residents of the home, could or should be expected to know about these activities.

You can fall on your sword if you want, but you should at least be reasonable about it.

Orcin · 06-18-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If I was Commissioner I would suspend the entire St. Louis Cardinals front office for the rest of the season immediately.

Hahahaha, sure. Before the investigation is even complete. Very smart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And this stain will never go away.

Look up the definition of a troll. You will find this person's avatar next to it.

msupoke · 06-18-2015, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Well, denying bad password usage as being part of the matter wouldn't surprise me. Who would want to admit to it? Especially when it led to such serious consequences?

Luhnow is a tech guy. There is no way that he was using old passwords. Even if he did, which he did not, the Cardinals organization hacked into the system. They are dirty.

msupoke · 06-18-2015, 09:03 PM

Also, they did not do this for sh!ts and giggles. The information was used, and the front office had to have known.

baseballonly · 06-18-2015, 09:06 PM

First of all, how do we know for sure that it was the Cardinals.

Second, as some people have said, the GM doesn't have to know EVERYTHING that's going on with his team. If a employee is stealing from a restaurant, does their boss get fired if he didn't know? Normally not. Not to say that the Card's GM didn't know about what was going on, but if he didn't, he shouldn't be punished. They may have used the information, but it doesn't mean they knew where it was coming from.

Raidergoo · 06-18-2015, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballonly

First of all, how do we know for sure that it was the Cardinals.

Because the FBI said so.

The Wolf · 06-18-2015, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballonly

First of all, how do we know for sure that it was the Cardinals.

How about because DeWitt admitted it about an hour ago?

"ST. LOUIS -- Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. blamed 'roguish behavior' for the team's involvement in the alleged hacking of the Houston Astros' player personnel database."

The Wolf · 06-18-2015, 09:34 PM

Point of sports cheating reference: in 2007, the McLaren Formula One team obtained confidential technical information from the Ferrari team. They were fined one hundred million dollars by the FIA for doing so. $100,000,000!

Raidergoo · 06-18-2015, 09:59 PM

I think the Cardinals law firm has advised the team to throw itself at the mercy of the FBI and MLB. The organization wants be perceived as being as cooperative as possible. I believe the strategy was adopted to preserve the brand and minimize the penalties that will come. I wonder if the MLBPA could file a grievance against the Cardinals. I wonder if the Cardinals have opened themselves up to civil suits from players and fans.

Whatever happened, it's so unprecedented and massive that St. Louis preemptively surrendered.

Orcin · 06-18-2015, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

How about because DeWitt admitted it about an hour ago?

"ST. LOUIS -- Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. blamed 'roguish behavior' for the team's involvement in the alleged hacking of the Houston Astros' player personnel database."

Maybe you should read the whole story and not just the first sentence.

tejdog1 · 06-18-2015, 11:01 PM

I hope they hacked the Mets and find incriminating quotes by Jeff Wilpon leading to the Wilpons ouster from baseball.

06-18-2015, 02:09 PM	#21
swoboda All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Guarding The Line Posts: 1,229	amending my earlier statement, the older I get the more it seems that ethical behavior is optional in any endeavor where there is a lot of money involved. always has been always will be. believe it or not I'm not a cynic by nature __________________ "...If you want to look ahead to the bottom of the ninth, the Mets will be sending up Buddy Harrelson, Jerry Buchek , and Don Bosch, we'll be right back after this word from Rheingold Beer" The late great Lindsey Nelson

06-18-2015, 07:21 PM	#28
ThatSeventiesGuy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Midland, MI Posts: 3,426	Unless somebody else gets caught doing the same kind of thing, though, Wolf's right. Period. No amount of homerism erases the stain. Let's not be like Patriots fans after Deflategate - and that was far worse, IMO. If your team cheats, admit they cheated, call 'em on it, put pressure on them to not do it again, and "remove the evil one from your midst", and move on. I call out Mozeliak for the worst punishment, for the following reasons: 1) I can buy that Matheny and the players/coaches knew nothing. So they're not culpable, unless incriminating evidence comes to light. 2) The owner, DeWitt, SHOULD have known, but since he's more of a hands-off type, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. 3) The GM plain NEEDS to know what his underlings are doing. If you don't fire him for cheating, you almost have to fire him for gross incompetence, anyway. __________________ https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...00&postcount=1

06-18-2015, 09:06 PM	#34
baseballonly All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 806	First of all, how do we know for sure that it was the Cardinals. Second, as some people have said, the GM doesn't have to know EVERYTHING that's going on with his team. If a employee is stealing from a restaurant, does their boss get fired if he didn't know? Normally not. Not to say that the Card's GM didn't know about what was going on, but if he didn't, he shouldn't be punished. They may have used the information, but it doesn't mean they knew where it was coming from. __________________ Former OOTP Leagues: CBL-Admirals (2016-17 Champs) MMB-Phillies

06-18-2015, 11:01 PM	#40
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,654	I hope they hacked the Mets and find incriminating quotes by Jeff Wilpon leading to the Wilpons ouster from baseball. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

06-18-2015, 03:23 PM	#26
ra7c7er All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,098	It'd be interesting to see what information was changed in Hustons database after Lunhow went over to them. It's not like these guys wipe their memories when they change teams. They retain all that knowledge and use it at their new jobs. How crazy is it going to be if it's found that the Astros also have a chunk of the Cards database information also. It's ignorant to assume that when officials who have access to that stuff don't "borrow" a bit when they leave. And that isn't anything to lessen what's happened here. Hacking is hacking and it's bad. Just thinking about a different angle.

06-18-2015, 09:03 PM	#33
msupoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 621	Also, they did not do this for sh!ts and giggles. The information was used, and the front office had to have known.

06-18-2015, 09:59 PM	#38
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	I think the Cardinals law firm has advised the team to throw itself at the mercy of the FBI and MLB. The organization wants be perceived as being as cooperative as possible. I believe the strategy was adopted to preserve the brand and minimize the penalties that will come. I wonder if the MLBPA could file a grievance against the Cardinals. I wonder if the Cardinals have opened themselves up to civil suits from players and fans. Whatever happened, it's so unprecedented and massive that St. Louis preemptively surrendered.