Market Size

[sreem]

Does market size change over time, and what effects it. If so, can it go either up or down?

[r0nster]

would think that it wouldn't change all that much. In real life it wouldn't change much at all other than adding fair weather fans or new radio In stations in fringe areas. In some states there isn't much play for that to happen.

[sreem]

Let me rephrase part of my question, or at least add this. Has anyone seen market size change in their games, and were you able to attribute it to anything if you have?

[jaysdailydose]

Yes, it will gradually change based on each franchise's performance in the game. It is something that will happen over a matter of years/decades, though, like in real life.

[TGH-Adfabre]

Originally Posted by sreem

Let me rephrase part of my question, or at least add this. Has anyone seen market size change in their games, and were you able to attribute it to anything if you have?

I have seen it grow and shrink. Growth is largely based on winning over an extended period of time. If you lose long enough it can shrink.
Every city in the game cannot be Atlanta. If you win you will attract more fans and interest.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by r0nster

would think that it wouldn't change all that much. In real life it wouldn't change much at all other than adding fair weather fans or new radio In stations in fringe areas. In some states there isn't much play for that to happen.

I used to say the same thing but I was corrected by LGO and others. They say it really is somewhat independent of demographics and that the "fair weather fans, etc." that you describe are what can change market size over time.

Me, I still think it's MOSTLY demographics and I would appreciate an option to freeze market size because it does have an effect on revenue. For it to do so and to be essentially subject to random change is disturbing to me.

For these reasons, I'm out. Heh, too much Shark Tank viewing.

What I mean is, I ignore market size and eliminate its effect on revenue (for the most part; not sure about attendance potential) by always choosing to share marketing revenue evenly. Wish I could differentiate between NYC and KC in this regard, however.

[jaysdailydose]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I used to say the same thing but I was corrected by LGO and others. They say it really is somewhat independent of demographics and that the "fair weather fans, etc." that you describe are what can change market size over time.

Me, I still think it's MOSTLY demographics and I would appreciate an option to freeze market size because it does have an effect on revenue. For it to do so and to be essentially subject to random change is disturbing to me.

For these reasons, I'm out. Heh, too much Shark Tank viewing.

What I mean is, I ignore market size and eliminate its effect on revenue (for the most part; not sure about attendance potential) by always choosing to share marketing revenue evenly. Wish I could differentiate between NYC and KC in this regard, however.

So you eliminate both local media contracts and merchandise contracts? That does work. I've been working on fictional leagues around the other three major sports and its been fun experimenting with the different revenue models and such.

I think I've finally decided that my fictional league going forward is going to be the NBA and they have a very interesting financial system to say the least.

[jaysdailydose]

One thing you could consider also to eliminate the market size mattering from attendance is to make the tickets one penny, to where even if it is affected, the financial impact on your league is minimal.

[bwhenry]

Originally Posted by jaysdailydose

One thing you could consider also to eliminate the market size mattering from attendance is to make the tickets one penny, to where even if it is affected, the financial impact on your league is minimal.

I've actually made tickets $0.00 in my league and it has worked fine as well. I wanted market size to not have any effect at all, so i did this, as well as making merchandising revenue $0.00 and Local Media $0.00. All revenue for teams is exactly the same and it comes through the national media contract. Obviously this extreme is not for everyone, but it was the best way to make my league work how I envisioned it.

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by bwhenry

I've actually made tickets $0.00 in my league and it has worked fine as well. I wanted market size to not have any effect at all, so i did this, as well as making merchandising revenue $0.00 and Local Media $0.00. All revenue for teams is exactly the same and it comes through the national media contract. Obviously this extreme is not for everyone, but it was the best way to make my league work how I envisioned it.

When you do this, is it always a sellout? I guess a full stadium I mean

[bwhenry]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

When you do this, is it always a sellout? I guess a full stadium I mean

Good question. Funny thing is, I've never actually checked. Only about 10 games into the season, and the attendance numbers weren't really important to me for immersion. I can take a look when I get home tonight at let you know.

[tcblcommish]

More curious than anything. Thanks

[NoOne]

in my tinkering and testings in ootp '15:

population has a more significant affect on local media contracts than the "market size" rating.

i say that because you can change the market size of a team like Detroit to 20 (21-astronomical) and the local media contract does not increase as much as you expect (~100-130ish/yr if i remember).

you change the population of detroit to 6,880,000 and put market size to 20, and you get a 200+million/year local contract.

So, 'market size' is a bit of a misnomer in the game. relative to 'business vocabulary' it's more like market saturation - ie popularity of the team within that regional population.

comments on fluctuation and change:
not that i think it's important to be in the game (is it a baseball sim or a population sim?), but cities do drastically change over the course of one decade to another. detroit has lost hundreds of thousands of people over the last 2 decades alone.

i just checked the 2010 census, they only have 713k residents. 2000 census: 950k. so nearly 250k in just 10 years - but that number doesn't tell the whole story.

obviously, some of those people stayed in the area but are no longer within the city limits. metro detroit is still nearly 4million and their tv affiliates reach even more. the state is shrinking though, so a good portion of those people did leave the area.

if market size is essentially local popularity, then it should defintiely fluctute significantly. and i think it accurately reflects this. Take KC. they did well last year, yet attendance lagged relative to performance. that's how the game works too, in my experience. detroit in 2006 is another good example of that lag time. i think this is part of market size's function.

other tidbit from goofing around:
i raised the price so high that only 5000 people attended, but the revenue was actually more than the ticket price for maximized attendance / profit, LoL!

ceterus paribus, too large of a stadium can influence attendance and therefore profit. i noticed something seemingly odd, so i slowly decreased my stadiums capacity (maybe started at 62k down to 52k) and as capacity got nearer the current attendance figures it jumped 4-5k in attendance.

[bwhenry]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

When you do this, is it always a sellout? I guess a full stadium I mean

In the small sample size I have so far it looks like no. Typical full stadium on opening day and smaller crowds thereafter. Of course, I also didnt adjust the size of my stadiums when I probably should of, I have 45,000 seat stadiums in cities of around 70,000 people.....