Question on Offering/Asking Players for Trades

[malor]

Hi, New player to OOTP franchise. Already up to 2023 from 2015 season playing as GM/Manager, only setting lineups/rotations as manager.

I think I figured out most of the features but do have a few questions about the trade process that are frustrating me.

1) On initiate trade screen - is there any way to select a player from an opposing team and request they provide a list of players from my team that they would accept in trade. I know I can use the make it work button, but that is only for one player. I get very frustrated clicking various players I think would fit their needs only to be told will not work. If they don't want to trade the player no matter what, he should be on the do-not-trade list or a message should simply pop-up right away saying we will never trade this player to you. Can any of this be done?

2) I know I can shop a player, but the resulting list always (at least for me) provides a useless list of players I don't want or can't afford. Would be great if the opposing team could provide a list of various players (more than one) if needed to trade for my player. It would also be nice to have an option on the Shop screen to say I'm only interested in prospects, Current Starters at certain positions or combinations of these to satisfy my needs as well as theirs. Afterall, if I want a 2B and they don't want to trade one, than we should not even be talking.

Any assistance/advice is appreciated. I'm getting tired of the trade process being more trial/error than back and forth negotiations between teams.

Thanks.
Tim

[Matt Arnold]

Essentially, no, this stuff is not possible right now.

-For 1, the make it work now is the best that you can do. If you want to build up a larger deal, what I would do is add their player, then add, say, your top prospect, and click make this work now. Then you will likely get a list of players they're interested in. You can add one of those, remove your top prospect, and then click make this work now again and see if someone worse can finish the deal. I find doing that is about the best way to figure out which guys they like that I might be willing to deal.

For 2, the shop player is complicated enough as it is (under the covers). We can think about ways to improve it for next year, and yeah, adding a filter on there might work. But otherwise if you're looking for a 2B, I would suggest using the find a player feature, then you can try adding those guys on to trade deals, and use the strategy in 1. to try to complete a deal.

[malor]

Matt,

Thanks for the quick reply. As a programmer myself, I understand the complications involved with coding something that complicated. Was simply hoping I missed a feature somewhere. This game has so much depth it would be easy to do.


Tim

[RchW]

Originally Posted by malor

1) On initiate trade screen - is there any way to select a player from an opposing team and request they provide a list of players from my team that they would accept in trade. I know I can use the make it work button, but that is only for one player. I get very frustrated clicking various players I think would fit their needs only to be told will not work. If they don't want to trade the player no matter what, he should be on the do-not-trade list or a message should simply pop-up right away saying we will never trade this player to you. Can any of this be done?

I don't understand the bold. I use "make this work" all the time, with or without shop a player and it often generates multiple player choices. I wish I could show you a screenshot but I'm watching the WS right now and the AI is not in a trading mood.

The best way to do this is to shop a player, pick a likely candidate but not someone you would necessarily give up your shopped player for. Click on the candidate then "trade for player" then "make this work" to see what happens. It doesn't return more than one player 100% of the time but very often does in my experience.

I make most of my trades this way.

Another tip; when you shop your players click and shortlist (I have a custom "trade target" shortlist) several players that may interest you. Later on you can look at that shortlist and try direct trading. Again this may or may not return multiple choices but I've had some success with it.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Essentially, no, this stuff is not possible right now.

-For 1, the make it work now is the best that you can do. If you want to build up a larger deal, what I would do is add their player, then add, say, your top prospect, and click make this work now. Then you will likely get a list of players they're interested in. You can add one of those, remove your top prospect, and then click make this work now again and see if someone worse can finish the deal. I find doing that is about the best way to figure out which guys they like that I might be willing to deal.

For 2, the shop player is complicated enough as it is (under the covers). We can think about ways to improve it for next year, and yeah, adding a filter on there might work. But otherwise if you're looking for a 2B, I would suggest using the find a player feature, then you can try adding those guys on to trade deals, and use the strategy in 1. to try to complete a deal.

Lol thats how I use the feature.

I never use shop a player for its 1 for 1 deals.

[olivertheorem]

Originally Posted by RchW

I don't understand the bold. I use "make this work" all the time, with or without shop a player and it often generates multiple player choices. I wish I could show you a screenshot but I'm watching the WS right now and the AI is not in a trading mood.

I believe the OP means that "make it work" doesn't give you any package deals, just a list of single players that the AI will accept. So in the OP's scenario, he's essentially just getting a list of players that will work 1-for-1, as opposed to a couple lesser prospects linked together.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

I believe the OP means that "make it work" doesn't give you any package deals, just a list of single players that the AI will accept. So in the OP's scenario, he's essentially just getting a list of players that will work 1-for-1, as opposed to a couple lesser prospects linked together.

I think you have it backwards. Why would I want to give more than one player when I'm asking the other team to "make it work". FWIW I have fashioned 1 for 2, 2 for 1 and 3 for 2 both ways from the starting point indicated in my earlier post.

This is what the OP said.

1) On initiate trade screen - is there any way to select a player from an opposing team and request they provide a list of players from my team that they would accept in trade. I know I can use the make it work button, but that is only for one player

He asked about a list and I indicated previously that this occurs fairly often, You may want to trade 2 players but I'm not sure it makes sense to expect to do so on an initial trade inquiry.

[malor]

Thanks for the all the replies. Really like the back-forth on this forum. I usually just lurk on forums but this one encouraged me to post in hopes of making the game better. The message below rambles a little but hopefully covers everything.

I’m going to attempt to make my comments a little clearer.

Purchased OOTPBB16 when it was released and have played 8 seasons so far. Really enjoy the game but have become extremely frustrated with the Trade process when I’m involved in it. The AI can trade with the AI and make 5-5, 5-4, 5-1 and all other combinations of trades, which on review normally look great for each of them. I’ve made those types of trades, but only after spending hours adding and removing players from the Initiate Trade screen trying to find a combination that will work for both teams.

I guess what I was looking for was when I add a player from another team on the Initiate Trade screen and click make it work, I would like to see something similar to when the AI offers me a 3-1 trade via email. If they can do it there, they should be able to respond the same way on the make it work screen. It should not always take a top prospect or starter to make the trade work. I would also like them to just say “no deal possibly just go away” or better to just use the Not available for Trade status so the player does not even show up as available on the roster list or are marked as such. This would avoid the frustration of constantly adding/removing players from the deal in attempt to trick the AI into a deal. If the AI can eventually say yes to some deal, they should be able to just add the players they will agree to at the start to avoid all of the clicking required to get there. I don’t get paid to negotiate so spending two hours trying to make one trade is not fun.

Here is the situation that caused me to write my initial post.

Between seasons, I want to trade for a Prospect 1B that I found using Find a Player tool to prepare for the replacement of my aging 1B. I don’t try to cheat the AI so I review the team first and see that not only do they have the 1B I want to trade for; they also have 1 good 30 year old starter, a good 25 year old backup on the Active roster and 2 OK players in AAA and AA. They have a great lineup of 1B in my opinion so I try to trade for the 21 year old at A level (20/50). Reviewing the colored strength chart I see they need a good prospect RP, RF, 2B, LF and SS. I have at A and AA OVR 20/POT 30-50 (80 scale) players (22-25 year olds) that the scouts say will make the majors and have a career. I don’t need them so I manually add my best player RP, RF, LF and SS to the trade 4-1. No deal. Now I click Make it Work. Players that show up in the list are players that they don’t need or are worse than players they already have at that position. Worse they are normally players that I need and am not willing to trade. Here is where my troubles begin. I figure, maybe I can give them other players instead of the original four. The process goes like this, add player, no deal, remove him, add another, no deal, repeat for two hours, finally give up in frustration. I don’t understand why they want players from me for positions they already have a better player but won’t accept a deal for other players better at positions the colored strength chart indicates they are week at? If the AI offered me these deals, I would jump at it.

I would attach screen captures, but it would probably take 20-30 or so to show what I described above and it probably would not be clear.

[Critical Mass]

I'm with you. The one feature I wish this game had was the game's inability for you to tell the AI what YOU are looking for.

For instance, if I'm rebuilding, why can't I tell the AI I want younger players or prospects?

Like other players have said, I play on Very Hard trading difficulty because I find the AI too easy to take advantage of, and the trades that are offered to me are pathetic! "I'll trade you my overpriced 34 year-old RF for one of your good prospects."

Or, in the case of Shop A Player, when I shop a 28 year-old, I don't want 33 year-old players in return if I"m rebuilding. Someone mentioned to use this as a starting point to see who is interested in Player X, but all too often, I have to add too much just to make them somewhat interested in parting with the guy I want.

[rpriske]

This thread confuses the heck out of me.

He asked if there is a way to find out who from your team the other play would give up a given player for.

The answer is yes. It is the Make it Work button.

Yet even someone who works on the game said no.

That is EXACTLY what that button does. It is like a reverse 'Shop a Player'.

[Friendly_Beaver]

Originally Posted by rpriske

This thread confuses the heck out of me.

He asked if there is a way to find out who from your team the other play would give up a given player for.

The answer is yes. It is the Make it Work button.

Yet even someone who works on the game said no.

That is EXACTLY what that button does. It is like a reverse 'Shop a Player'.

I don't think he wants to go into each team and do this to see who he can get for a certain player. The shop option will only show 1 for 1 deals I think that could be fixed, but then again in real life you do have to call another GM and say hey I'm willing to part with so and so, are you interested? If so what are you offering?

I personally think it's more fun to have to negotiate, give me the feeling I'm actually working the phones.

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by Friendly_Beaver

I don't think he wants to go into each team and do this to see who he can get for a certain player.

I was talking about his first point. That is exactly what he was asking about.

[malor]

As the original poster, my issue in item 1 is that when I click make it work, I want the AI to provide me a list of 1-5 players in any combination, they will take for the players I selected from their team.


Personally, the make it work button is almost useless in its'configuration because it only provides a list of players that if you choose one, the trade will be OK. What about the condition where I would give two or more players to "make it work".

Currently, it is very difficult to find a combination of players to trade with the AI without hundreds of clicks hoping to find the players they might want. And this needs to be done for each team, one at a time if the first team won't take any of your players.

A message early on in the process would be nice saying "go away", you don't have anything we want. That would save mouse clicks.


As others have said above, trading is very difficult in this game, even if the setting are not set to hard. If would be great if the UI could be modified to make it easier to trade with the AI, not make the trades easier, just make the UI easier.

[rpriske]

Well, we already know that they will never offer anything like 'any combination of these 5'. That would be an absolute nightmare to calculate.

If you are willing to offer 2 players, look at the other teams needs, offer a player and THEN (assuming they say no) press Make it Work.

Trades take a little work. And they should. Shop a Player and Make it Work are VERY useful tools in making that happen.

[SirMichaelJordan]

I agree the trading mechanics in this game make trading harder than it actually is. Anyone who plays on very hard and have low patience will pretty much say trading is impossible on that level.

[NoOne]

i only have used Normal trading difficulty, so this is obviously skewed to that setting:

about 1:

key in on the response from the other GM. there are different levels willingness/unwillingness that use specific verbage. add a player/prospect that bumps the message. i generally add 1 player alone and see how that effects the trade response. remove and repeat. if i find 1 or 2 that bump the message close to acceptance, i add them and then use the "make it work" option if they are not enough. Or, i will continue to mix and match the players that cause the greatest change in the trade response until they agree. i find better combinations than the 'make it work' option. i really avoid that as much as possible to get the most value in return. when i do use it, i still try to reconfigure it before proposing the trade.

is that still a ton of clicks? yes.

is it less than what you were doing? maybe.

have more than one 1b prospect you are willing to go after. no team gets their first choice everytime. you will find that another prospect might be half the cost, and only slightly lower potential. sometimes that's the better choice.

about 2, a good use of shop a player:

i use shop player around to find teams offering the best talent - regardless of what i am looking for. i then go into trade screen and pull that team up in order to see what else is available.

it basically gives you a quick and sloppy result of which teams have a weakness at that position you are trading - since they are willing to give more than other teams for that player. along with any other factors that are important.

a more thorough approach requires looking at each and every team's weaknesses by position. i know it's on the trade screen, and there may or may not be a report that consolidates this info. once you have a list of the weakest teams at that position, browse through what they have to offer and go from there.

if shopping a player results in duds, the trade value for that player is lower than what you perceive it to be. at that point, lower your expectations. you can't force a square peg through a round hole.

this should also help you avoid the teams that will demand a large premium for their player - like your 1B example.

------------------

i love the trading in this game. too often games aquiesce to the demands of a few loud complaints and make it easy to get targeted players whenever you choose to do so at a cheaper price than what a mlb team would pay in RL.

this process isn't supposed to be like sports radio trade-talk speculation where they just expect opposing teams to hand over talent. i'm glad i can't just get all the targets i want in any given offseason or midseason trade.

in your example, there are many possibilities why they don't want to give you that prospect 1b for what you are offereing - even when weighted in their favor to some extent.

i think in general, the initiator of a trade tends to pay more. always exceptions, but that is the general trend in the pro sports that i watch. i'm not terribly confident in that assumption, though.

in regard to the ui aiding this process, and it might already be there, is a consolidated report showing by position weaknesses on all teams. if you are trading a 2b, you go to 2b weakness by team - color coded like the trade screen or any other way.

i'm lazy and use the shop player around like i explained above. i can't remember if this report already exists.

[Matt Arnold]

The position strength overview report gives the very detailed breakdown of the OSA rank of all teams at all positions, both starters and depth, including listing the top player for each team at each position.

I think the key is that everyone has a different way they want to trade, so we'd never get a system that everyone likes. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who feel the shop a player or make this work now are "cheats" that make things too easy.

To me, when I want to deal a guy, I usually shop him to see which teams might be interested. If anyone there pique's my interest, then I will sometimes just do the one for one deal. If not, then I'll often see the teams that are willing to give me players of value, then go through to see if there's someone else on that roster to try to work out a deal for, using a combination of adding them to the deal, adding players from my side, make this work now, adding more guys from their side, playing with the cash balance, all until I can work out a deal. Yeah, it's a lot of clicking, but to me it's part of the back and forth negotiation. Sometimes i shop a player, see the other team offer me a good player for him, take it, and I feel like, "wait a minute, that was easy. Did I miss something in this negotiation?"

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Sometimes i shop a player, see the other team offer me a good player for him, take it, and I feel like, "wait a minute, that was easy. Did I miss something in this negotiation?"

we might have been posting at same time, i use shop the same way.

definitely look to add to any deal you construct. even without the shop around feature. once i get a positive response i look for throw-in prospects they might part with. you don't get anythign special, but you might get a bench player or future trade bait.

the people that call those optons cheats are being a bit ridiculous. a trade is 2-way communication and simulating reality is the whole goal of the program, in my opinion.

also, you tend to get lesser value when you use those features. again i think this is similar to real-life. initiators of trades generally pay more than if the team they are trading with approached them first with an offer. a human can usually find a better combination compared to make it work and shop a player.

as far as those email proposals - i didn't see any worthwhile trades, so i just delete them... while the concept above about an initiator of a trade applies to humans, i think the ai is already at a disadvantage and there's no reason to pile on.

[tejdog1]

Scenario

Dodgers approach Sandy Alderson in July 2013 "What would it take to get David Wright and Daniel Murphy, Sandy?"

"We'd need a considerably package back. Perhaps as many as three significant prospects, and some lessor pieces."

The way it works now - you can't get back packages. I think that's what people want.