Too many decisions to closers

[SirMichaelJordan]

Well by default in the MLB Quicstart, closer usage is at very often which is the highest setting.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Well by default in the MLB Quicstart, closer usage is at very often which is the highest setting.

I think there's actually a higher setting now called extreme and that's what the quickstart uses. Did my annual start the QS and quit a week ago. Noticed the extreme usage setting.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I think there's actually a higher setting now called extreme and that's what the quickstart uses. Did my annual start the QS and quit a week ago. Noticed the extreme usage setting.

It doesn't go that far for closer usage.

It may be extreme for reliever usage.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

It doesn't go that far for closer usage.

It may be extreme for reliever usage.

Really, I could have sworn it was closer usage. Shows how long I lasted playing the qs.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Really, I could have sworn it was closer usage. Shows how long I lasted playing the qs.

I could be wrong, Im not in front of the game.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I could be wrong, Im not in front of the game.

Yeah, me either. I really need to hit the lotto, so that I'm always in front of the game.

[Dyzalot]

Quick start uses "extreme" for relievers and "very often" for closers, both of which are the "highest" settings available.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

In terms of #1, if it says the play was "close" should I just imagine that it wasn't? As for #2, I guess I can start posting screen shots of those too.. As for #3 I can only laugh. People say "post screen shots, prove it happens because I never see it". Then I post screen shots and the argument is, well I don't have enough context. Whatever, I guess you just have the opinion that I am trying to troll the OOTP community and your mind is set.

Hey, calm down, I'm not calling you out for anything; I'm merely debating your stance because I personally haven't seen the problems you've presented.

To #1: I don't know what you're seeing, so please don't act like I should know what your PbP said. All you said was that the PbP stated the ball was thrown to third. That's all I'm going off of, and in my experience with the game, I haven't noticed anything out of line with runners advancing. So I gave generalized suggestions. That's all.

Now, when people ask for screenshots, the above is the kind of thing we're trying to avoid. We want to see what you're seeing, so an argument doesn't brew over semantics. It means we want to see EVERYTHING. We want to try and figure out WHY something is happening. When people question you, it's not a matter of "I don't believe you, you're lying"; it's a matter of "I wonder if there's some underlying condition that's causing this" or "Maybe this is just confirmation bias". So posting a screenshot of only the game log does not do anything but confirm that it happened - which we already knew, because again, we believe you. We just don't believe that the game is flawed in this regard, and we want to figure out why you do. So instead of just the game log, give us context. Give us a shot of the batter's ratings, and the box score of the game. Your settings. Your league totals. Let us see the whole picture as you are seeing it.

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Also as to the "context" argument I'm pretty sure I gave pretty good context on the lefty being removed after facing one batter for a righty to face another lefty batter. It was the 7th inning and the reliever being brought in was the last rested reliever in the pen. For the bunting ones I provided the context of having the bunting set to "rarely" and the in game strategy set to "sabermetric" and yet I still see a young slugger bunting a guy over in a scoreless game in the early innings. Not sure how much more context is needed to realize those are problems with the AI.

The last rested reliever thing is a little worrisome, but just going off of the "the game brought in a righty to face a lefty" - I go back to my first post in this thread. Why is that not the right call? We'd need to see the splits for the batter and for both pitchers before we can say that the game made a poor decision. There's more at work than just L/R matchups.

And for the bunting ones, you've posted game logs and occasionally ratings. Good start, but again, I want to see everything. The box score, primarily. Maybe a screenshot of all your settings - because there could always be something messing with the engine besides the bunting frequency. Also, how consistently is this happening? Is it over the course of a week, or a month? A season? And what are the final numbers? Are sacrifice hits out of line with league totals? As I said above, we need to see the whole picture exactly as you are seeing it. You're insisting the guy bunting is a young slugger, or a number three hitter, but you haven't shown anything to back that up, merely his name and the fact that he bunted. You need more than that. I know it's a lot to try and keep track of, and a lot of work screenshotting everything, but with only the PbP evidence, all I can do is shrug.

This is not an attack on you; this is not dismissing your issues. This is me trying to help, trying to figure out what you are seeing and whether it is an issue. I want to compare your settings to mine. I have a test league saved at all times where I can mess around with things to try and replicate issues that people are having. But without seeing more than just "this is happening," I can't offer more than "it's not happening for me."

[Dyzalot]

Ok that's nice. How come no one has posted anything like that in the relevant threads? The only feedback I seem to get is either "ok, that is wrong, post it in the bug forum" or "well I never see these things, why do you?" I'm fine with giving more info. I just don't know what is needed. Also this is happening over the course of a few seasons but that is only a few games for me. I'm not going through game logs looking for these. I'm only posting the ones I see while watching a game. As I've explained before I watch the first game of Spring Training, Opening Day and then the first game of each month so over the course of a few seasons we are only talking about like seven games per year. My Minnesota game is only in its second season so anything I have posted from that has happened in the course of about 12 games at this point. I ran my Arizona game for maybe 12 seasons but didn't start posting stuff until the 8th season or so. Those are the only two games I have played with OOTP16 since I purchased it about three weeks ago.

[Dyzalot]

Maybe a screenshot of all your settings - because there could always be something messing with the engine besides the bunting frequency.

Just to address this. I use the MLB quick start and the only changes I make are to make AI evaluations include stats, allow a few features of league evolution, change bunting from "normal" to "rarely" and increase ALL Star rosters to 34. The only thing that should have an affect is the bunting setting, of those that I adjust. Also my bad on the above info about my Minnesota game. I am actually in the third season so everything has been over the course of about 18 games, not 12.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I don't want to come across as confrontational here and I apologize for not knowing how to phrase this question better so it doesn't sound kind of condescending, that's not my intent at all, but do you watch real baseball a great deal?

Real players, teams and managers constantly, constantly make stupid, bone-headed decisions or even just seemingly sub-optimal decisions I disagree with. They throw to the wrong base, they try to take an extra base when they shouldn't and get thrown out, they sub relievers at the wrong time, play players at the wrong positions (heck Yuniesky Betancourt started at SS in the majors for how many years? Wilmer Flores is starting at SS in the majors now!), they don't pinch hit when they should and do when they shouldn't etc. etc. etc.

A lot of the ai stuff you've posted is far, far less egregiously incorrect than the typical stuff I see every day when watching real life games.

I'm not saying there's no room for improvement with the ai. There clearly is, and Markus, Andreas and Matt would be the first to admit that. They spend a great deal of time working on it every version.

I agree that maybe 50% of the stuff you've posted are places the ai could be genuinely improved, but the other 50%, imo, are areas that are judgement calls at best, where the ai is already probably more consistently strong than many rl managers and players are.

I may be totally off base, but I get the feeling you want to have an ai that always makes the mathematically optimal decision in every circumstance during games. But that would be totally and completely contrary to real baseball. I imagine the ai could be programmed to do that, but what would be the point? The results would then be far more unrealistic than they are now.

Not only that the game would be near impossible for a human since the AI would always use the statistically better outcome. No matter what decision a human manager made the AI would be about to counter with an optimal outcome. The only times the human manager would have a change is when the RNG was hitting extremes in favor of the human player.

[metsguy234]

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I've noticed that an abnormal amount of closers earn way more wins/losses than compared to real life. Routinely multiple closers a year with records like 8-6, 10-4, 3-12, etc.

Has anybody else noticed this? My suspicion is that the AI is far more willing and likely to bring in closers in tie games than real life managers are, which leads to more games ending with the closer in the game. I'm not sure if there's anyway to influence this either on a leaguewide level or with your own team (when GMing of course)...

Your silly agenda is transparent to anyone unfortunate to continue to read your posts.

[HoustonGM]

Regarding my original post, I'm going to try turning down closer usage one notch for a season and see how things look.

[rrrozz]

Originally Posted by HoustonGM

I've noticed that an abnormal amount of closers earn way more wins/losses than compared to real life. Routinely multiple closers a year with records like 8-6, 10-4, 3-12, etc.

Has anybody else noticed this? My suspicion is that the AI is far more willing and likely to bring in closers in tie games than real life managers are, which leads to more games ending with the closer in the game. I'm not sure if there's anyway to influence this either on a leaguewide level or with your own team (when GMing of course)...

Shades of Goose Gossage ...

But actually this reminds me of a question I wanted to ask, I started a fictional league and I notice the incredible amount of 5 star relievers, stuff of 100 (on a 100 scale). I got like 5 of these guys from the inaugural draft and so far have a lights out bullpen.