can someone explain to me how this guys WAR

[Padreman]

can someone explain to me how this guys WAR is so high? hes 5 time MVP and he won it in 1971, I run the team but I let the AI choose the awards however, hes my player but I dont think his numbers were MVP caliber, and how is that his WAR was so high? I don't understand WAR all that well but seems high for his stats.
He was Ranked
10 in the NL in Batting
8th in OBP
4th in Sluggin
1st in WAR
3rd in OPS
2nd in Doubles
6th in HR
10th in RBI
9th in RUNS
10th in BB
4th ISO
2nd in Extra Base Hits
4th in TB

[sabrtoothtiger]

I am willing to bet he's an unbelievable defender - what is his zone rating? it may be hard to find if you don't have fielding stats historically archived.... but I am willing to be he's saving between 15-20 runs a season with his glove. Which would explain his strong wars after those dominant seasons (plus he has been +100 in OPS+ every single year) Usually with average defense a player with 600 abs and league average (100 ops+) will return between 1.0-1.5 war a season.

Those 64' & 65' seasons are unbelievable.

[Padreman]

I did not know defense added to your WAR rating

[majesty95]

How does it work for pitching? I'm confused to WAR as well. Hard to believe one player could save 15-20 runs on defense. That's got to be an absurd amount of big plays...

[etothep]

What is WAR? | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

[Padreman]

So does the game highly value saber-metrics? Because his BA% HR and RBI totals are not all that great, good, solid but MVP worthy? I would say no

[THEMURPH]

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing unless you want a single stat that tries to summarize a player’s total contributions to their team.
Uh-huh
Say it again, ya'll

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

WAR...Even though I'm not a big-time sabermetrics guy, it could be the best stat ever if they did a better job defining how it's figured. Until then, I like it, with a bit of a raised eyebrow.

[Raidergoo]

What do the fans think of the guy? What's his national popularity?

[Padreman]

Very popular

[Tired]

What are the Padres ballpark factors like? And the league's run environment in general? Raw numbers need that context to be added before you can figure a WAR.

[Tired]

Does OOTP still have an option for Sabermetric or Traditional when it comes to award voting? A full season of 152 OPS+ can easily be the best player in the league if it comes with good or great CF defense. Or even barely passable defense in the right league with the right position scarcity. But people didn't think that way in 1971; they looked at AVG HR RBI like OP.

[Padreman]

He did not win the gold glove

[rudel.dietrich]

Lots of things. First, he has an OPS+ of 152 but an actual OPS of .853
That is a fairly pedestrian OPS but he was 52% better than league average.

Your league offense must going through a pitchers era. If it is 1971 then that makes sense.
Pitchers who had awesome numbers (and I am guessing there were a lot) tend to look worse because the league environment makes it easier to be better at preventing runs.

It also takes park effects into account. His home park may or may not made it easier to produce runs.


Also, you note that he did not lead any category in hitting, but he was top 10 in 13 different categories of offensive success. He excels at every aspect of run production.

Finally, he played in 157 games for 681 PA's.
There is a lot of value in actually playing games and showing up for work.

WAR is an advanced stat but it is still a counting stat in terms of more playing time meaning a higher value (assuming your performing well)

So he is a great hitter for his environment and is durable.

Then as others have mentioned, he must also be good defensively.

If I may ask for more info. What was his OPS+ ranking?
I love OPS + more than maybe anyone of this board. It has flaws but it is a great quick and dirty stat to get a very quick idea of how one has performed relative to the league and their parks. When I do free agency I often begin my analysis by sorting by OPS + and then further investigating the higher ones.

And it is not the end all stat. Nor is WAR or any other single stat. The great thing about OOTP is that it has given us a lot of great evaluation tools. Only by using them all can you get an idea about a player.
Where you begin is up to you, whether it is OPS+, WS, WAR or traditional slash line or anything else you might use. A slash line is great if you are going to use traditional stats Since it encompasses the two main core pillars of how a player produces runs.
You know how well he can get base hits, how well he can get on base apart from base hits and how well he hits for power.

Finally, what was his RC and RC/27 and those rankings?

They see among the oldest of saber stats but another quick and dirty stat that I like.

RC is nice because it shows the value of durability and showing up for work and being productive while you are there.
The second shows to what degree a player is affecting the scoreboard per game (besides defense)


This is a good discussion, there are so many good ways to evaluate an player. There is really no wrong way unless you use only a single number and or use some crazy that have been proven to be not good indicator of success.

So there is my lesson on statistics for the day I used to be more up date on this stuff until I shifted my analysis from baseball over to basketball.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Lots of things. First, he has an OPS+ of 152 but an actual OPS of .853

Your league offense must be very depressed. If it is 1971 then that makes sense.
Pitchers who had awesome numbers (and I am guessing there were a lot) tend to look worse because the league environment makes it easier to be better at preventing runs.

It also takes park effects into account. His home park may or may not made it easier to produce runs.


Also, you note that he did not lead any category in hitting, but he was too 10 in 13 of them. He excels at every aspect of run production.

Finally, he played in 157 games for 681 PA's.
There is a lot of value in actually playing games and showing up for work.

WAR is an advanced stat but still a stat that is a counting stat in terms of more playing team meaning a higher value (assuming your well)

So he is s great hitter for his environment and is durable.

Then as other have mentioned, he must also be good defensively.

If I may ask for more info. What was his OPS+ ( and ERA +) ranking?
I love OPS + more than maybe anyone of this board. It has flaws but it is a great quick and dirty stat to get a very quick idea of who has performed relative to the league and their parks. When I do free sgency I often begin my analysis by sorting by OPS + and then further investigating the higher ones.

And it is not the end all stat. Nor is War or any other evolution. The greet ting shout OOTP is that it has given us a lot of great evaluation tools. Only by using them all csn you get an idea about a player.
Where you begin is up to you, whether it is OPS+, WS, War or traditional slash line. A slash line is great spit you are going to use traditional stats Since it encompasses the two main core pillars of how a player produces runs.
You know how well he can get base hits, how well he can get on base apart from base hits and how well he hits for power.

Finallly, what was his RC and RC/27 and those rsnkings?

They see among the oldest of saber stats but another quick and dirty stat that I like.

RC is nice because it shows the value of durability and showing up for work.
The second shows how the player is affecting the scoreboard per game (besides defense)


This is a good discussion, there are so many good ways to evaluate an player. There is really no wrong way unless you use only a single number and or use some crazy thst have been proven to be not good indicators of success.

So there is my lesson on statistics for the day I used to be more up date on this stuff until i shifted my analysis from baseball over to basketball.

Wow that's over my head. I'll post those stats when I get home

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Wow that's over my head. I'll post those stats when I get home

I cleaned its up quite a bit for clarity. No more typing long posts on iPads.

And not to sound harsh, but it is really not that difficult to understand.
There stats are given to you in game and in real life. You don't need to understand the math behind them or the formulas. You just need to understand what they measure, whether it takes into account era and park effects and how they interact with other stats.

I think many people who resist saber metrics do so because they fear they will not understand them.
But they are quite easy to understand. And not even the hardcore of the hardcore actually do the grunt work when it comes to the math.
Once the formula has been created and it has been agreed upon that it is a useful measure of a players performance. Then it is just a matter of entering the formula into computer software and letting it do the math for you.
Baseball Reference, Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus all do this. Otherwise they would have to have massive staffs crunching numbers.

With a small time investment you can teach yourself how to quickly and mostly accurately evaluate a player. And it pays off dividends in the end both GMing an OOTP team and watching real baseball.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by Tired

Does OOTP still have an option for Sabermetric or Traditional when it comes to award voting? A full season of 152 OPS+ can easily be the best player in the league if it comes with good or great CF defense. Or even barely passable defense in the right league with the right position scarcity. But people didn't think that way in 1971; they looked at AVG HR RBI like OP.

Can someone confirm this

[ezpkns34]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Can someone confirm this

Not sure which part you want confirmed

A full season of 152 OPS+ can easily be the best player in the league if it comes with good or great CF defense
Confirmed

Or even barely passable defense in the right league with the right position scarcity
Confirmed

But people didn't think that way in 1971; they looked at AVG HR RBI like OP
Confirmed

Does OOTP still have an option for Sabermetric or Traditional when it comes to award voting?
Plausible
There's a dropdown box (League Options -> AI Settings) allowing the AI to base Lineup Selection on Traditional or Sabermetric (Splits favored) ideologies. Not sure if that's what he was referring to or if there's an extra hidden game option somewhere that specifically offers sabermetric vs traditional voting philosophies for awards that I simply have yet to come across

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by ezpkns34

[/B]Does OOTP still have an option for Sabermetric or Traditional when it comes to award voting?
Plausible
There's a dropdown box (League Options -> AI Settings) allowing the AI to base Lineup Selection on Traditional or Sabermetric (Splits favored) ideologies. Not sure if that's what he was referring to or if there's an extra hidden game option somewhere that specifically offers sabermetric vs traditional voting philosophies for awards that I simply have yet to come across

This part if I change it I guess in wondering it wills select awards according to traditional stats rather than sabermatrics

[Matt Arnold]

No, awards are not selected based on traditional/sabrmetric. Current awards voting is based on a combination of WAR plus the traditional metrics. If we start seeing more sabr voting for awards we could split it to have different weights, but I don't think overall voting patterns have changed too much yet over the years.