sign and release strikes again :)

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

This particular problem has ZERO affect on game play, the issue that exist is between the ears of the OP and his inability to enjoy the game because some meaningless player in an independent league has a History full of sign and releases, I have 2 solutions for anyone who lets this little "bug" destroy their enjoyment, 1) don't look at his history anymore, 2) Edit his history and get rid of all the signings so you don't have to look at them.

The reason this is such a low priority (if it's even on the fix list) is because it has no affect on how the game plays. And elimination of it would possibly cause the transactions of an independent league to swing into the unrealistic realm of not enough transactions, then someone would complain about that. It's a lose/lose situation,

Do we expect OOTP to make little things like this a Top Priority when there are still much more pressing issues that actually have an impact on the way the game plays that need addressed?

I Know I don't

I never once said it was ruining my experience. In fact I said I deal with it AND that the only reason I posted it up was because this was the most egregious version if it happening. I even made a joke about it in my original post.

And actually in the fictional world I play in their are only independent leagues so the league isn't meaningless.

Also I don't ever expect it to be "fixed" devs have already come out and said basically it can't be with the current way the game works. It doesn't mean it still isn't a thing that is happening.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by etothep

While I personally have yet to see this happen, if it's happening to good players then I'd say it should count as a bug worth trying to fix. If it's happening to minor league fodder then I'd say who cares

It happens most with fringe players. The guy I originally posted was a middling 3.5 star guy with 5 star potential. I've already played 3 seasons and he's a 2 time all-star 2 gold gloves and 1 batting trophy. So in the end I think he ended up coming out ahead.

[dward1]

in 15 I would see teams release 1st or 2nd round draft picks consistently while keeping 4th or 5th rounders within a month of the draft. this was a league with reserve rosters. in 16 I haven't run a league with reserve rosters but the league did not handle drafts/prospects with reserve rosters well at all. it's not really user error because there's no way to know the game can't handle reserve rosters when setting up a league, yes there is a way around it with unlimited reserve rosters but that is not a realistic or attractive option to many people

[Ts-Rock]

i have no f'n idea what this thread is even about, I've never seen this in the 10yrs I've been playing ootp so obviously it isn't a wide spread bug that the Markus and company should put down their beers and cut short their vacations to rush back and try to fix. lets quite making a mountain out of a mole hill and go back to enjoying this kick ass game!

[Painmantle]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

Also I don't ever expect it to be "fixed" devs have already come out and said basically it can't be with the current way the game works. It doesn't mean it still isn't a thing that is happening.

Ok so far in this thread You've acknowledged :

A) that this topic has been covered several times before in post,
B) You understand what causes this issue,
C) You know how to prevent it,
D)You now fully acknowledge the developers are aware of it and it will not be fixed and you don't expect it to be fixed.

YET, you create a league basically knowing this will happen due to it's design and settings, and when it does you make yet another thread about it complaining that "It's still happening"


I ask you one more time, What was the point of this thread in the first place?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by dward1

in 15 I would see teams release 1st or 2nd round draft picks consistently while keeping 4th or 5th rounders within a month of the draft. this was a league with reserve rosters. in 16 I haven't run a league with reserve rosters but the league did not handle drafts/prospects with reserve rosters well at all. it's not really user error because there's no way to know the game can't handle reserve rosters when setting up a league, yes there is a way around it with unlimited reserve rosters but that is not a realistic or attractive option to many people

I just tested this with 16 and I'm sad to say the problem is still there. Guys will get drafted, released, signed by another team and released again. These guys are more often than not really good players. In the test league I just ran, 3 of the guys I noticed this happening with were Jon Lester, Jordan Zimmerman and Lefty Grove.

Zimmerman was actually signed by the Boston Braves on 02/25/1947 and in the same sentence announcing his signing it's announced that the Braves released him.

Jon Lester was drafted by the Red Sox in the 4th round, 11/01/1946. The Red Sox released him on 11/03/1946. The Red Sox had second thoughts and resigned him 11/28/1946. They released him on 11/28.

Lefty Grove was the 4th player selected overall in the 1947 amateur draft. Selected by the Pirates. The Pirates then released him 3 days after the draft A month later the Browns signed him, but less than a month later they dumped him as well. He then gets signed and dumped by the Athletics, signed by the Indians and is named the MLB's #6 prospect on 04/19.

UGH

[David Watts]

Shoot, I thought I might have stumbled on a solution. Tried moving the amateur draft back to late December and turning on the signing bonus option. But, I'm still seeing teams sign their draft picks and then they release them a short time later.

[David Watts]

Well, I wasted entirely too much time on this issue this morning. Thought I was going to come up with a solution, but no matter what I tried I just couldn't get it to work. One thing that's obvious though. The problem when using reserve rosters with limits doesn't only involve obscure minor league lifers, but most often involves really good players.

Oh well, time to move on.

[Painmantle]

What I'd like someone to do is, instead of just saying "It's unrealistic to set the reserve roster to unlimited" SHOW ME that using this setting produces unrealistic hoarding of players on a teams reserve rosters. I have a feeling that you won't see it happen. In my Ruth Dynasty that started in 1918 it is now the end of the 1923 season and teams have an average of 24 players on their reserve roster, High is 33, low is 18. These are hardly "unrealistic" numbers. It seems that most have an issue with this imaginary amount of players they feel it's possible to have on a reserve team being "infinity". When the realities of the setting are that it will most likley stay within a realistic number.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

What I'd like someone to do is, instead of just saying "It's unrealistic to set the reserve roster to unlimited" SHOW ME that using this setting produces unrealistic hoarding of players on a teams reserve rosters. I have a feeling that you won't see it happen. In my Ruth Dynasty that started in 1918 it is now the end of the 1923 season and teams have an average of 24 players on their reserve roster, High is 33, low is 18. These are hardly "unrealistic" numbers. It seems that most have an issue with this imaginary amount of players they feel it's possible to have on a reserve team being "infinity". When the realities of the setting are that it will most likley stay within a realistic number.

It depends on how large your database is.

I imagine an historical game wouldn't see a team with 99 players in their system using reserve rosters.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by David Watts

One thing that's obvious though. The problem when using reserve rosters with limits doesn't only involve obscure minor league lifers, but most often involves really good players.



Oh well, time to move on.

Yea, this is why people were seeing high draft picks being released, it was because of the limits they had on the minor league rosters.

The game gives you a warning about this.

I don't think its working as intended but I think its something that just hard to correct.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

What I'd like someone to do is, instead of just saying "It's unrealistic to set the reserve roster to unlimited" SHOW ME that using this setting produces unrealistic hoarding of players on a teams reserve rosters. I have a feeling that you won't see it happen. In my Ruth Dynasty that started in 1918 it is now the end of the 1923 season and teams have an average of 24 players on their reserve roster, High is 33, low is 18. These are hardly "unrealistic" numbers. It seems that most have an issue with this imaginary amount of players they feel it's possible to have on a reserve team being "infinity". When the realities of the setting are that it will most likley stay within a realistic number.

I have a historical league in 1910. I started in 1904, simmed to 1910, erased history and held a fantasy draft. I'm using reserve rosters with no roster limit. Right now there are a handful of team with 40 man reserve rosters(the high) and one team with 34(the low). The rest of the teams come in at around 36-39.

I have run random debut leagues in which I've seen teams get into the mid 50's, but I really didn't see a lot of great players not playing. So, I agree with you. I do think large amateur drafts could cause an issue, but why would you want a large draft when using reserve rosters?

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I do think large amateur drafts could cause an issue, but why would you want a large draft when using reserve rosters?

Someone could be playing the quick-start with the indy leagues (reserve roster)

As mention before, Indy teams in reality sign players one week and cut them the next (probably not at the same rate as OOTP) so its not really a big deal other than the fact the cuts seem random and the player's history gets large and unreadable.

So a user with indy leagues (with a modern day mlb league size) have to choose between having indy teams (or leagues with reserve rosters) hoard players or see ton of guys get cut everyday.

With that said, there is no reason to put roster limits on the minors and if you do then please follow directions and do not put limits on the lowest level of minors, if you do then thats user error.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Someone could be playing the quick-start with the indy leagues (reserve roster)

As mention before, Indy teams in reality sign players one week and cut them the next (probably not at the same rate as OOTP) so its not really a big deal other than the fact the cuts seem random and the player's history gets large and unreadable.

So a user with indy leagues (with a modern day mlb league size) have to choose between having indy teams (or leagues with reserve rosters) hoard players or see ton of guys get cut everyday.

With that said, there is no reason to put roster limits on the minors and if you do then please follow directions and do not put limits on the lowest level of minors, if you do then thats user error.

I have very little experience with the MLB quickstart. Seems every version I will eventually try it, but I hardly ever make it through a season. Not a fault of the game, I just think it's too massive for my tastes.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Ok so far in this thread You've acknowledged :

A) that this topic has been covered several times before in post,
B) You understand what causes this issue,
C) You know how to prevent it,
D)You now fully acknowledge the developers are aware of it and it will not be fixed and you don't expect it to be fixed.

YET, you create a league basically knowing this will happen due to it's design and settings, and when it does you make yet another thread about it complaining that "It's still happening"


I ask you one more time, What was the point of this thread in the first place?

I've already explained it several times if you only care to selectively read then I can't help you.

Also as some people have said this issue has been around a LONG time. You'd think after 10ish years of this in the game the devs would have something more to say then just "use unlimited rosters"

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

What I'd like someone to do is, instead of just saying "It's unrealistic to set the reserve roster to unlimited" SHOW ME that using this setting produces unrealistic hoarding of players on a teams reserve rosters. I have a feeling that you won't see it happen. In my Ruth Dynasty that started in 1918 it is now the end of the 1923 season and teams have an average of 24 players on their reserve roster, High is 33, low is 18. These are hardly "unrealistic" numbers. It seems that most have an issue with this imaginary amount of players they feel it's possible to have on a reserve team being "infinity". When the realities of the setting are that it will most likley stay within a realistic number.

Any time you have more players on your reserve roster then your active roster it's unrealistic. Can you name any sport where you have more reserve players then active players. Minor leagues and U leagues don't count since those are active playing leagues.

Originally Posted by David Watts

I have a historical league in 1910. I started in 1904, simmed to 1910, erased history and held a fantasy draft. I'm using reserve rosters with no roster limit. Right now there are a handful of team with 40 man reserve rosters(the high) and one team with 34(the low). The rest of the teams come in at around 36-39.

I have run random debut leagues in which I've seen teams get into the mid 50's, but I really didn't see a lot of great players not playing. So, I agree with you. I do think large amateur drafts could cause an issue, but why would you want a large draft when using reserve rosters?

I just did a similar test with my leauge setup. Only changing reserve roster size to unlimited. 37 of the 44 teams have over 40 players on their reserve rosters. the other 7 have between 35 and 40 in 5 years. At the end of the fifth season before FA filing their are only 11 players in FA.

I'm going to sim another 5 years and see what happens. After that I can't really look at anything because of the FA starting age issue.

[David Watts]

Being able to set reserve roster size limits, does make expansion easier though. Simply more players floating around in the free agent pool. In the historical league I described above, there are 12 players currently unemployed. All of them relief pitchers.

None of this is me whining. Just holding a discussion.

[SirMichaelJordan]

you can always set the limit to above 35.

It doesn't guarantee to stop the cuts but it is the game's recommend number.

[ra7c7er]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Being able to set reserve roster size limits, does make expansion easier though. Simply more players floating around in the free agent pool. In the historical league I described above, there are 12 players currently unemployed. All of them relief pitchers.

None of this is me whining. Just holding a discussion.

I'd be nearly impossible to have a reasonable expansion in a league like that. Every team would give up their absolutely worst players. The expansion teams would have no chance for 20+ years trying to build a team only from drafting.

---

Simmed another 5 years of my league and now 33 of the 44 teams have over 50 players. 10 have between 35 and 45 and for some reason one team only has 14 players in their reserve roster. I'm guess it's because their are no more players in the FA pool. I can't really sim anymore since the game starts the initial FA pool age at 26 for some reason. If I go any further the number won't be accurate because the number of retiring players is nearly quadruple the number of incoming right now.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

I'd be nearly impossible to have a reasonable expansion in a league like that. Every team would give up their absolutely worst players. The expansion teams would have no chance for 20+ years trying to build a team only from drafting.

I'm more worried about teams not having enough players. I want my expansion teams to stink for a certain amount of time. But the cool thing about OOTP is you can always pump up the draft size to deal with this.