Arbitration Offer

chimanbj · 04-07-2015, 10:53 AM

So, I let the Phillies run through their season, and watched as Ruben Amaro Jr. still couldn't figure out how to make the Phillies any better. So I got him fired, and have taken over the job of GM. The season is over, and it's time for salary arbitration. I notice that there are many over-30 players to whom I can offer arbitration, but the offer must total $15M. I was stunned. Not that I woudl really want the players, as I plan to gut the team, but I wonder if this makes sense.

Imperialism32 · 04-07-2015, 11:02 AM

That's the qualifying offer you make to be eligible for FA compensation. So if you offer it to Andruw Jones, for instance, he's obviously going to take it since there's no way he gets $15M on the open market. But if you offer it to Cliff Lee, he may not take it, and if he doesn't, then you get a compensation draft pick in next year's draft.

RchW · 04-07-2015, 11:04 AM

That's not arbitration. It is a qualifying offer (QO) for eligible FA. It should be pretty easy to see which of your pending FA are worth a QO. Most are not.

The QO is made so you get a draft pick as compensation should they sign elsewhere.

Edit:

It clearly says qualifying offer on your screen shot.

chimanbj · 04-07-2015, 11:10 AM

That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!

MKG1734 · 04-07-2015, 11:13 AM

The $15MM qualifying offer is part of the MLB collective bargaining agreement.

You, as GM, have the choice of:

#1: Submit the qualifying offer of $15MM. If the player declines the offer and elects to become a free agent, you will be awarded with draft pick compensation in the next draft if the player signs a contract with a new team. Also of note, if YOU sign a player from another organization that was offered and declined a $15MM qualifying offer, then YOU will forfeit your first round draft pick.

#2: Do not submit the qualifying offer. However, you will not be awarded a compensation draft pick when the player signs with a new team.

Essentially, you are choosing the risk/reward of submitting the offer. If it a good player, one worthy of making $15MM, then you should submit the offer. Because then, the player will either accept the offer (good), or decline; however, you'll get draft pick compensation (bad that the players leaves, but good to get compensation). If it is a player you do not deem worthy of $15MM, you should likely not submit the offer because you don't want to be stuck with that salary and that player for the upcoming season.

Where it gets tricky is a player that is on the borderline....almost good enough to make $15, but not quite....but you're not sure if the player will accept the offer or not. Now you have to decide if the risk of the player accepting the offer is worth the reward of him declining and you getting draft pick compensation.

byzeil · 04-07-2015, 12:02 PM

I hadn't notice the update to this screen, glad they changed how the qualifying offers are presented compared to v15. Everything is now clearly spelled out.

Matt Arnold · 04-07-2015, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byzeil

I hadn't notice the update to this screen, glad they changed how the qualifying offers are presented compared to v15. Everything is now clearly spelled out.

Yes, it was written out in small below, but in beta I think a couple people complained about "accidentally" giving a 15M offer to a middling reliever, so I thought it made sense to explicitly warn you. I think if you go to that screen now, I'm basically yelling in your face warning you about what is happening.

Avindian · 04-07-2015, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Yes, it was written out in small below, but in beta I think a couple people complained about "accidentally" giving a 15M offer to a middling reliever, so I thought it made sense to explicitly warn you. I think if you go to that screen now, I'm basically yelling in your face warning you about what is happening.

Does the qualifying offer change it as it's meant to IRL, or is it always $15 million?

RchW · 04-07-2015, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avindian

Does the qualifying offer change it as it's meant to IRL, or is it always $15 million?

It is accurately calculated plus minus 10% by my calculations.

Edit:

That is the average of the top 125 mlb contracts.

Matt Arnold · 04-07-2015, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

It is accurately calculated plus minus 10% by my calculations.

Edit:

That is the average of the top 125 mlb contracts.

In game, we actually set it at the league salary settings for the second top category. It corresponds very well to the actual value, and is simpler to control based on league sizes and league financial configurations.

RchW · 04-07-2015, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

In game, we actually set it at the league salary settings for the second top category. It corresponds very well to the actual value, and is simpler to control based on league sizes and league financial configurations.

Its pretty close. My top 125 average is $15,566,786 and as you say the second tier on my financials is $16M.

Well done.

Greeney03 · 04-08-2015, 03:14 PM

I have a question about QO. In my online league, Mat Latos will be a FA in the offseason, for some reason, Latos is not showing under QO screen. How does the game calculate this? Latos stayed in his team the whole season and pitched really well.

RchW · 04-08-2015, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeney03

I have a question about QO. In my online league, Mat Latos will be a FA in the offseason, for some reason, Latos is not showing under QO screen. How does the game calculate this? Latos stayed in his team the whole season and pitched really well.

Bug or glitch. Screenshot his contract page.

Greeney03 · 04-08-2015, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Bug or glitch. Screenshot his contract page.

I don't have access to the game right now, but here's the screenshot of his contract page on StatsLab if it helps.

Matt Arnold · 04-08-2015, 04:31 PM

Did he sign the contract after opening day? They have to be on the roster from opening day until the end of the season, so if he signed a couple days into the season that could explain it.

Greeney03 · 04-08-2015, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Did he sign the contract after opening day? They have to be on the roster from opening day until the end of the season, so if he signed a couple days into the season that could explain it.

He's been on the team for 3 years now. 2016 is his final arby year.

Another Mike D · 04-09-2015, 06:37 PM

I'm going to jump on this to hijack it rather than start a new thread. Is there any way to make guys who turn down QOs actually ask for near that much? Here's a guy in my online league that was making 9.5M in arbitration, turned down a QO offer of 12M, then asked for 1.5M. I ended up signing him for about 3.9 x 3 right after we started FA (Jan. 1). Seems odd that a guy would turn down 12M to ask for 1M (with no change in ratings) and then settle for 3M on the first offer he received.

agrimsley · 04-10-2015, 05:51 AM

We actually had something similar as the Latos example above in an online league.

Giancarlo Stanton had been with the Cardinals for 3 seasons and in the current season he was injured at the start on 60-day DL. Following his recovery he had a rehab assignment to AAA and played 16 games where he picked up another minor injury resulting in a 15-day DL trip. After this was complete, he returned to the ML roster and played the rest of the season. Once the season was over, the GM was unable to offer him a QO. We believe he is eligible as he would have been on the roster had it not been for DL or rehab assignments, can anyone clarify?

Dem Bums · 04-10-2015, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Mike D

I'm going to jump on this to hijack it rather than start a new thread. Is there any way to make guys who turn down QOs actually ask for near that much? Here's a guy in my online league that was making 9.5M in arbitration, turned down a QO offer of 12M, then asked for 1.5M. I ended up signing him for about 3.9 x 3 right after we started FA (Jan. 1). Seems odd that a guy would turn down 12M to ask for 1M (with no change in ratings) and then settle for 3M on the first offer he received.

Ya, if players sign for less than the QO it should only happen if no team is willing to meet their initial demands. Last year Kendrys Morales misjudged his market value and turned down a $14.1M QO and ended up settling for a $7M contract, but not until June. Signing for less at the beginning of free agency makes little sense.

Winnipeg59 · 04-10-2015, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Did he sign the contract after opening day? They have to be on the roster from opening day until the end of the season, so if he signed a couple days into the season that could explain it.

I am going to bump this to re-re-highjack it...

if that's a term?

I am the GM of the team with Latos above.
Latos has been on the roster for three years.
Online league, as mentioned.

One of the customizations in this league Matt is that the draft has been moved to immediately after the off-season (just something different). In our internal discussion about this dilemma I suggested that because of that, when the off-season turns over the draft actually comes prior to the declaration of free agency so a qualifying offer cannot be made prior to free agency.

Greeney03, by the way, is an awesome and responsive Commissioner (our league is FULL, which is all you need to know) and he has entertained the idea of moving the draft back into a more traditional place AFTER this off-season.

Latos, I am afraid, will likely walk without any compensation (which is fine...live and learn). I'm assuming another draft now scheduled for the coming season, let's say in a traditional June period (might be a little prospect heavy for a year, but this appears to be the way out), obviously will have no effect whatsoever on the compensation process as there will be no free agents declaring prior to that draft BUT, when the next off-season clicks over will the qualifying offer, compensation process correct itself for the draft in the subsequent season?

At the risk of providing way too much information, here's the timeline:

2016 season concluded and league advances to off-season
Remember the draft in this league has been scheduled to run in the off-season after the conclusion of Championship series and advancing to the off-season, but prior to the declaration of free agents (at roughly the traditional MLB time)
Latos (as seen above), or frankly any other "on the roster for complete year" player on ANY team is not listed for qualifying offers (is this because of draft placement in this league?)
We will run this off-season draft as is
Latos, and all other free agents in the same predicament, will walk without compensation (no prob)
The plan, to hopefully get us back on track, would be to then schedule another draft, let's say in June of the 2017 season (obviously FA's and QO's will play no role in this and we understand that)
The following season, now 2018 and going forward from there, let's say the draft will continue in the traditional June spot
The question then becomes WILL the process play out as it should at the conclusion of our next season 2017? When the off-season turns over, QO's WILL BE APPARENT, players accepting or rejecting as free agents declare, and compensation properly playing out in that 2017 to 2018 off-season so that IF a comp eligible player is indeed signed the resulting draft pick WILL now show up in the 2018 draft as would normally happen?

How I explained that properly (and that you understand the situation)?

04-07-2015, 11:04 AM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	That's not arbitration. It is a qualifying offer (QO) for eligible FA. It should be pretty easy to see which of your pending FA are worth a QO. Most are not. The QO is made so you get a draft pick as compensation should they sign elsewhere. Edit: It clearly says qualifying offer on your screen shot. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit Last edited by RchW; 04-07-2015 at 11:06 AM.

04-07-2015, 11:10 AM	#4
chimanbj All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago, by way of Philly Posts: 794	That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification! __________________ People ask if I'm a Cubs or White Sox fan...I tell them, proudly, I'm a Phillies Phan!

04-07-2015, 12:02 PM	#6
byzeil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NJ, US Posts: 2,007	I hadn't notice the update to this screen, glad they changed how the qualifying offers are presented compared to v15. Everything is now clearly spelled out. Last edited by byzeil; 04-07-2015 at 12:03 PM.

04-08-2015, 03:14 PM	#12
Greeney03 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 239	I have a question about QO. In my online league, Mat Latos will be a FA in the offseason, for some reason, Latos is not showing under QO screen. How does the game calculate this? Latos stayed in his team the whole season and pitched really well. __________________ CBL Commissioner & GM of San Diego Surf Dawgs

04-09-2015, 06:37 PM	#17
Another Mike D All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: atl Posts: 891	I'm going to jump on this to hijack it rather than start a new thread. Is there any way to make guys who turn down QOs actually ask for near that much? Here's a guy in my online league that was making 9.5M in arbitration, turned down a QO offer of 12M, then asked for 1.5M. I ended up signing him for about 3.9 x 3 right after we started FA (Jan. 1). Seems odd that a guy would turn down 12M to ask for 1M (with no change in ratings) and then settle for 3M on the first offer he received. __________________ San Diego Padres NexGen Baseball League Cleveland Indians United Baseball League Co-commissioner of United Baseball League

04-07-2015, 10:53 AM	#1
chimanbj All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Chicago, by way of Philly Posts: 794	Arbitration Offer So, I let the Phillies run through their season, and watched as Ruben Amaro Jr. still couldn't figure out how to make the Phillies any better. So I got him fired, and have taken over the job of GM. The season is over, and it's time for salary arbitration. I notice that there are many over-30 players to whom I can offer arbitration, but the offer must total $15M. I was stunned. Not that I woudl really want the players, as I plan to gut the team, but I wonder if this makes sense. Attached Images __________________ People ask if I'm a Cubs or White Sox fan...I tell them, proudly, I'm a Phillies Phan!

04-07-2015, 11:02 AM	#2
Imperialism32 Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 341	That's the qualifying offer you make to be eligible for FA compensation. So if you offer it to Andruw Jones, for instance, he's obviously going to take it since there's no way he gets $15M on the open market. But if you offer it to Cliff Lee, he may not take it, and if he doesn't, then you get a compensation draft pick in next year's draft.

04-07-2015, 11:13 AM	#5
MKG1734 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 256	The $15MM qualifying offer is part of the MLB collective bargaining agreement. You, as GM, have the choice of: #1: Submit the qualifying offer of $15MM. If the player declines the offer and elects to become a free agent, you will be awarded with draft pick compensation in the next draft if the player signs a contract with a new team. Also of note, if YOU sign a player from another organization that was offered and declined a $15MM qualifying offer, then YOU will forfeit your first round draft pick. #2: Do not submit the qualifying offer. However, you will not be awarded a compensation draft pick when the player signs with a new team. Essentially, you are choosing the risk/reward of submitting the offer. If it a good player, one worthy of making $15MM, then you should submit the offer. Because then, the player will either accept the offer (good), or decline; however, you'll get draft pick compensation (bad that the players leaves, but good to get compensation). If it is a player you do not deem worthy of $15MM, you should likely not submit the offer because you don't want to be stuck with that salary and that player for the upcoming season. Where it gets tricky is a player that is on the borderline....almost good enough to make $15, but not quite....but you're not sure if the player will accept the offer or not. Now you have to decide if the risk of the player accepting the offer is worth the reward of him declining and you getting draft pick compensation.

04-08-2015, 04:31 PM	#15
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,329	Did he sign the contract after opening day? They have to be on the roster from opening day until the end of the season, so if he signed a couple days into the season that could explain it.

04-10-2015, 05:51 AM	#18
agrimsley Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 44	We actually had something similar as the Latos example above in an online league. Giancarlo Stanton had been with the Cardinals for 3 seasons and in the current season he was injured at the start on 60-day DL. Following his recovery he had a rehab assignment to AAA and played 16 games where he picked up another minor injury resulting in a 15-day DL trip. After this was complete, he returned to the ML roster and played the rest of the season. Once the season was over, the GM was unable to offer him a QO. We believe he is eligible as he would have been on the roster had it not been for DL or rehab assignments, can anyone clarify?