Program Determination of Results

[jabrown6940]

Maybe the OP needs to uncheck the 1919 Black Sox option.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by jabrown6940

Maybe the OP needs to uncheck the 1919 Black Sox option.

Maybe a name change and sponsorship is in order. How's Pete Rose Baseball sound?

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

The best player in my fictional league at the tail end of his career started game 7 and lost 1-0 he pitched the complete game and struck out 15...

Devastating, but not the AI's fault.

[jlking]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

If you look around the forums a bit you'll see enough cases of people doing exactly that, going 120-40 or so, to dispel any theories of outcomes being rigged.

But even beyond that, there's just plain no rigging involved.

For me OOTP is what I would call a toy not a game. If I so desired, I could easily set up a league where I dominated. I can do pretty much anything I want. I often setup two league three division with only two teams in each division games. It is my toy and I can do whatever I want!

As to predetermination, I have made enough disaster late game dissensions to doubt even predetermination could save me. Never listen to your pitcher when he tells you he is fine.

[RchW]

There is probably more predictability in real life results than in OOTP if you were to drill down into every base/out state that occurred in a MLB season. I've always thought that some of the apparent strategy issues (IBB for example) that we see are due to the fact that OOTP does not control the rate of occurrence of base/out states which cause strategic responses.

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by RichardMartin99

I have played OOTP 13, 14,15 and now 16.

I obviously love the game since I have managed at least 3 different
teams for a full season in 13, 14, and 15.

After extensive experience, I believe that the program predetermines
the outcome of a game from a point in the game.

If I am managing a team which is ahead, there is a point in the
game ( usually later but not always the same ) when I can feel
whether my team will hold the lead or blow the lead.
In these situations, I feel the program has " scripted " an end
to the game and I as a manager cannot change the final result.

Has anyone else noted this effect ?

Thanks, Richard

From a development stand point I can tell you that rigging a game according to different circumstances is just incredibly complicating the actual coding..... therefore it doesn't make sense at all. I can totally see where you're coming from, but given that the devs give is full access to the DB, it's easy to conclude why certain things happen when they happen,

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This.

So, to answer the original post: No.

So can we put the conspiracy talk away for good now? Markus has spoken and settled this.

[David Watts]

I do wonder sometimes if OOTP magically knows when you're trying to squeeze in that one last game before bed, work, an appointment etc. Ever notice how it never fails that game goes 13+ innings.

[pstrickert]

David: Yes.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by jlking

For me OOTP is what I would call a toy not a game. If I so desired, I could easily set up a league where I dominated. I can do pretty much anything I want. I often setup two league three division with only two teams in each division games. It is my toy and I can do whatever I want!

As to predetermination, I have made enough disaster late game dissensions to doubt even predetermination could save me. Never listen to your pitcher when he tells you he is fine.

You can do that with any game available - it's called gaming the game with the sole intent of winning or "beating" the game.

Some people buy games solely for that purpose. So to them, it's probably a toy.

I buy OOTP and I play it as a game - I try to play fairly and realistically. I know I can take advantage of the AI if I want to, but I don't because I'm looking to experience a "Baseball Game" and not just win.

Maybe I've been mislead, but I was under the impression that people who buy a Baseball game with the kind of depth OOTP has are mostly interested in actually playing "Baseball".

I mean otherwise, why buy it? Just to "Game" it doesn't make sense, but to each his/her own.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

You can do that with any game available - it's called gaming the game with the sole intent of winning or "beating" the game.

Some people buy games solely for that purpose. So to them, it's probably a toy.

I buy OOTP and I play it as a game - I try to play fairly and realistically. I know I can take advantage of the AI if I want to, but I don't because I'm looking to experience a "Baseball Game" and not just win.

Maybe I've been mislead, but I was under the impression that people who buy a Baseball game with the kind of depth OOTP has are mostly interested in actually playing "Baseball".

I mean otherwise, why buy it? Just to "Game" it doesn't make sense, but to each his/her own.

But isn't dominating the game part of the video game culture?

[I♥Pepper]

Originally Posted by RichardMartin99

I have played OOTP 13, 14,15 and now 16.

I obviously love the game since I have managed at least 3 different
teams for a full season in 13, 14, and 15.

After extensive experience, I believe that the program predetermines
the outcome of a game from a point in the game.

If I am managing a team which is ahead, there is a point in the
game ( usually later but not always the same ) when I can feel
whether my team will hold the lead or blow the lead.
In these situations, I feel the program has " scripted " an end
to the game and I as a manager cannot change the final result.

Has anyone else noted this effect ?

Thanks, Richard

There is any easy way to accurately test your theory.
1. When you feel or theorize that the simulation is about to produce a canned result, ie. blow the lead, make a copy of your game-save somewhere and rename it.
2. If your feeling or theory does come true, ie. the game blows your teams lead, immediately quit the game with the ctrl-alt-del key combo, task manager, select OOTP process, and exit process.
3. reload the game save you previously backed up.
4. play the game out again the same way or make subtle changes like a pitching change or pinch hitter to see if it influences or changes the outcome.

Good luck! and have fun.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

You can do that with any game available - it's called gaming the game with the sole intent of winning or "beating" the game.

Some people buy games solely for that purpose. So to them, it's probably a toy.

I buy OOTP and I play it as a game - I try to play fairly and realistically. I know I can take advantage of the AI if I want to, but I don't because I'm looking to experience a "Baseball Game" and not just win.

Maybe I've been mislead, but I was under the impression that people who buy a Baseball game with the kind of depth OOTP has are mostly interested in actually playing "Baseball".

I mean otherwise, why buy it? Just to "Game" it doesn't make sense, but to each his/her own.

I set out to recreate a "Yankees type dynasty" way back v8 or so. In those days I could win 3-4 WS in a row but not the 5-6 that I was looking for. No apologies from me, that's what I wanted. In recent versions it has become so difficult to dominate that I have gone 4, 6, 8 seasons without a WS win. I am so determined that I wont stop playing these old leagues until I do get back to winning several in a row. It doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon.

[IanIachimoe]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I do wonder sometimes if OOTP magically knows when you're trying to squeeze in that one last game before bed, work, an appointment etc. Ever notice how it never fails that game goes 13+ innings.

... you could be on to something here.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by David Watts

But isn't dominating the game part of the video game culture?

I have no idea, I don't play video games, I don't own an Xbox or PSwhatever#. I play 2 games, OOTP and Links 2003 (maybe links can be classified as video)

I could "game" either 1 if I wanted to, but I don't because to me, that's not the purpose of the game.

Like I said, to each his/her own as to how they play.

I'm just saying I don't see the point in trying to "game" ootp. But again, that's only my point of view.

[bazeall]

If the 2013 Astros had a 1-3 run lead going into the 7th inning, it was certain they would blow the lead and lose the game.

The NBA Live series had scripted outcomes. I proved it by saving games in progress, finishing the game, then re-loading the game to play through to the end multiple times.

The same things would happen every time: the same turnovers, the same baskets, the same fouls, the same everything. There was even a strange sound, like a spring, just before spectacular dunks.

To prove the game is scripted save the game, move the save to a different file location, play out the game, restore the saved file, play out the game multiple times. Determine if the results are the same every time.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by bazeall

If the 2013 Astros had a 1-3 run lead going into the 7th inning, it was certain they would blow the lead and lose the game.

The NBA Live series had scripted outcomes. I proved it by saving games in progress, finishing the game, then re-loading the game to play through to the end multiple times.

The same things would happen every time: the same turnovers, the same baskets, the same fouls, the same everything. There was even a strange sound, like a spring, just before spectacular dunks.

To prove the game is scripted save the game, move the save to a different file location, play out the game, restore the saved file, play out the game multiple times. Determine if the results are the same every time.

That would not necessarily prove the point. It depends on how random numbers are generated. Some games bake a seed into a save to prevent reloading and getting different results. That does not mean the game is rigged, only that the fate of dice rolls has been determined before the results are shown.

I have no idea on how OOTP generates random numbers.

[Orioles1966]

In a lot of my 15 plus inning games seems like one team knows it going to be a long game ahead of time by letting the first reliefer pitch extra long even though the game is yet to be in extra innings.

Same city,same division,same league teams(example 3 Chicago teams) seem to group together in the standings,either really good or really bad.

One year I had 3 Hawaii teams in an 180 plus team league be in the final four of the playoffs. Thought that was odd and what are the odds of that ever happening?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

In a lot of my 15 plus inning games seems like one team knows it going to be a long game ahead of time by letting the first reliefer pitch extra long even though the game is yet to be in extra innings.

Same city,same division,same league teams(example 3 Chicago teams) seem to group together in the standings,either really good or really bad.

One year I had 3 Hawaii teams in an 180 plus team league be in the final four of the playoffs. Thought that was odd and what are the odds of that ever happening?

Pure randomness.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Questdog

That would not necessarily prove the point. It depends on how random numbers are generated. Some games bake a seed into a save to prevent reloading and getting different results. That does not mean the game is rigged, only that the fate of dice rolls has been determined before the results are shown.

I have no idea on how OOTP generates random numbers.

Many versions ago I had won the WS 4-1. When I clicked on leave game it crashed. Fortunately I had daily saves on so the game successfully booted back to the last saved day with me up 3-1. I lost that 5th game the second time around and the next two to lose the WS. That season has an asterisk in my mind.