I think I've reached the end of my patience with TBCB 2013

American_Ernesider · 02-12-2015, 08:39 PM

I have really tried to be supportive of TBCB 2013, but I run into so many problems and I don't know that I've seen any fixes or each issue is difficult o replicate or even understand.

I started a new universe and decided I would just work with the fighters in the game itself. Initially things ran pretty smooth and I was excited to get into this universe. I think I saved and closed the game, and then when I went back into that universe, everything was messed up. I had a FLY that was listed as a HW, but that didn't start the game that way, and I felt I had no other choice but to restart.

I thought maybe it had somehing to do with updating the data pool option, so I started a new game and go it all setup. I decided I wouldn't try doing any sorts of updating the data pool, etc. Again, things were running smoothly until it crashed during an auto-scheduler event, but I had saved the game...

I go back into it and the game essenially changed half of whatever I did. I had updated any HWT that was born beween 1940-1944 as Prime, so I was surprised when a fighter I had changed to Prime was now listed as "End" and all of a sudden he was listed as MW??

Changes it made somehow--

Muhammed Ali from a 15 Prime HW to a 0 End WW
Sonny Liston went from an 8 Postprime HW a 0 Prime HW
Pierro Tomasoni from a HW to a FW
Stan Ward and Ron Stander from HW to MW
Thad Spencer from HW to BW

Just checking over the universe I hadn't even touched yet --
China Smith, Fabio Moli, Dante Craig, and Kendrick Releford are the op rated HWs.

I just don't even know where to begin and I try thinking what might be the problem, but it seems like I can't even get going because these random changes that I can't account for. If I tried importing a bunch of fighter files, I could get it, but whether it's RFG issues or these weird changes I really don't know what to do.

SAL · 02-13-2015, 12:19 PM

I feel for you American. I was so frustrated with 2013 that I've uninstalled it from my computer. I'm back to 2.5. I even ordered the new Advanced Titlebout board game the other day. Hope it's as good as the old one.

Hanson Bros · 02-13-2015, 03:45 PM

I might be in trouble with my universe ... got a new computer and 2.5 won't work with Windows 8.1 ..... it shuts down nearly every fight I run .... so either I am gonna have to buy a monitor and another computer desk just to have my old computer for 2.5 or figure something else out ... just think 2013 is too buggy for my 11 year old universe

hamed2 · 02-13-2015, 04:40 PM

I know what you guys mean & I had some issues initially with it as well on my new computer.

I hope I don't jinx myself here but now things seem pretty stable so I hope it improves for all of you too!

American_Ernesider · 02-13-2015, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamed2

I know what you guys mean & I had some issues initially with it as well on my new computer.

I hope I don't jinx myself here but now things seem pretty stable so I hope it improves for all of you too!

Are you playing with 2013 or 2.5?

professordp · 02-22-2015, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAL

I feel for you American. I was so frustrated with 2013 that I've uninstalled it from my computer. I'm back to 2.5. I even ordered the new Advanced Titlebout board game the other day. Hope it's as good as the old one.

Sal,

That's a wise course of action! In anticipation of this sort of thing, I picked up a copy of the AH version on eBay a few years back...just to have some semblance of the game in reserve.

The comments above concerning TB2013 aren't encouraging.

I feared that TB 2.5 "hit the ceiling" with Windows 7. Rather than attempting to reinvent the wheel, Paul would have served all of us much better if he had just focused upon making 2.5 compatible with Windows 8.1

Cap · 02-22-2015, 01:48 PM

Considering the unending cycle of OOTP revisions and updates, it certainly seems that our poor over-worked Bob Cratchet of a programmer is years away from a workable career-oriented boxing sim. I can't really blame the guy. There are only so many hours in a day and unless you're a hermit in a cave, you've got personal commitments that have to take priority over a project that can't be generating much revenue.

I dislike Windows 8 and had it replaced with Win-7 so I could continue using my laptop for Title Bout. Maybe the next version of Windows will be friendlier but I seriously doubt it. All the kids and tech-heads have tablets and whatever else that Microsoft sees as the future, so once again we're left behind in a cloud of dust for Windows 9 and all things connected. (Microchip in the brain anyone?)

I wonder how many sports games came out, were obsessed over by a minority of players who begged for improvements, only to be abandoned and forgotten by the producers? One of my favourites was "Old Time Baseball". Brilliant concept with a few problems that were never fixed. The company moved on to the next great thing that would sell units before being left behind too. It's the nature of the business. No producer wants a game that can be played forever. That's crazy. Where's the profit in that?

So short of one of us fanatics winning the lottery, it seems to me that we need to turn to crowd-sourcing to generate the kind of money needed to afford a full-time programmer. There are about six or seven hundred million people in Europe and North America. A big percentage of that is males. A large faction of that is males interested in sports. A chunk of that are males of the right age who have money to spend on sports games. That leaves at least a thousand guys willing to fund a boxing sim.

Would you believe a hundred.....

Cap

professordp · 02-22-2015, 02:58 PM

Cap,

Your points, all good, in the first paragraph raise a question in my mind.

If Paul has time constraints and it's a project that isn't generating much $$$, why the heck did he buy it in the first place????

You're spot on about nobody wanting to produce a game that plays forever within the context of profit.

Still, there have been game companies, APBA and PC Action come to mind immediately, who have been around for some time and pretty much sell the same game, albeit with "new and improved" bells and whistles.

They make a good deal of their money through selling updated ratings.to existing owners. Come to think of it, that's the common practice for the overwhelming majority of companies that sell sports simulation games.

It's pretty much common sense. If I shelled out $50.00 for a game and I like it, I'll be more than willing to part with $20.00 each year for updated ratings.

Just thinking aloud here, but did the "explosion" of free "homebrew" ratings, offered here in the forum, ultimately serve to cripple TBCB with respect to potential $$$ in the long haul?

I mean how can you attempt to sell something if it's being given away for free?

Even within the simulation of boxing, table top games like those put out by Downey and Rob Lennon's Diggin' Deep Boxing sell annual ratings updates. If my memory serves me well, didn't the Trunzo brothers do this also when Title Bout was under the AH flag?

Perhaps Andreas, the Tunzos, or someone else might have dropped the ball here by failing to exercise their copyright prerogatives, but perhaps we fans of TBCB bear some of the fault ourselves in retrospect.

I along with many others have offered free boxer ratings at this forum with the best of intentions.

Then again, it's been said that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Prof

Antonin · 02-22-2015, 03:20 PM

Year after year after year, the OOTP Baseball cycle has been cited as the "reason" for not working on TBCB.

I've given up on any future versions of TBCB and on any fixes for TBCB2013.

professordp · 02-22-2015, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonin

Year after year after year, the OOTP Baseball cycle has been cited as the "reason" for not working on TBCB.

I've given up on any future versions of TBCB and on any fixes for TBCB2013.

Sadly, I think the same way.

Using my infallible twenty-twenty hindsight, I still think they missed the boat making money off TBCB by not marketing updates and allowing we lunatics to run the asylum.

Perhaps, in the end, it wouldn't have made any difference concerning the game being a money loser and thus not a priority for the company. Nevertheless, the sale of update ratings would have added some $$$ into the income side of the ledger.

Lee · 02-22-2015, 04:39 PM

I am a big supporter of Paul and the issue is he is still contracted to work on OOTP, so the money part of it aside, he really has no choice.

In my conversations with him, it seems he bought TB as a labor of love and truly is committed to working it into a playable product. He is still compiling research on the design quorum and still has a bugs list to fix.

My concern, like many others is, this game is played by an 'aging' crowd and while we are loyal, something needs to be released to bring in younger fans or just new boxing stalwarts and time really is of the essence to do so.

The key part is making a career sim, once that is done I think a prudent business model would be to follow what Adam Ryland does, release a new version of the game every 2-3 years and in the interim provide small updates that can be sold as DLC. A big detriment there however, is there is so much already available for free (in terms of fighters) and so many people here that do a great job rating them, I don't know how to support the DLC model outside of add-on modules to the game.

Regardless, I am still staying here, offering ideas and support and hoping for the best. If nothing else this community deserves it for it's loyalty and Paul deserves it for taking a chance to give us what we want.

Kevin · 02-23-2015, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cap

I dislike Windows 8 and had it replaced with Win-7 so I could continue using my laptop for Title Bout.

Cap

I have been running 2.5 on Windows 8.1 with no issue. What sorts of problems are people having?

Hank1974 · 02-23-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I am a big supporter of Paul and the issue is he is still contracted to work on OOTP, so the money part of it aside, he really has no choice.

In my conversations with him, it seems he bought TB as a labor of love and truly is committed to working it into a playable product. He is still compiling research on the design quorum and still has a bugs list to fix.

My concern, like many others is, this game is played by an 'aging' crowd and while we are loyal, something needs to be released to bring in younger fans or just new boxing stalwarts and time really is of the essence to do so.

The key part is making a career sim, once that is done I think a prudent business model would be to follow what Adam Ryland does, release a new version of the game every 2-3 years and in the interim provide small updates that can be sold as DLC. A big detriment there however, is there is so much already available for free (in terms of fighters) and so many people here that do a great job rating them, I don't know how to support the DLC model outside of add-on modules to the game.

Regardless, I am still staying here, offering ideas and support and hoping for the best. If nothing else this community deserves it for it's loyalty and Paul deserves it for taking a chance to give us what we want.

Totally agree. And it's the reason why I plan on buying '13 this week sometime.
Just reading through the Universe threads has me itching to begin my own.

Between my online OOTP league and this, my wife might not see me for a few months, haha.

professordp · 02-23-2015, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

I am a big supporter of Paul and the issue is he is still contracted to work on OOTP, so the money part of it aside, he really has no choice.

In my conversations with him, it seems he bought TB as a labor of love and truly is committed to working it into a playable product. He is still compiling research on the design quorum and still has a bugs list to fix.

My concern, like many others is, this game is played by an 'aging' crowd and while we are loyal, something needs to be released to bring in younger fans or just new boxing stalwarts and time really is of the essence to do so.

The key part is making a career sim, once that is done I think a prudent business model would be to follow what Adam Ryland does, release a new version of the game every 2-3 years and in the interim provide small updates that can be sold as DLC. A big detriment there however, is there is so much already available for free (in terms of fighters) and so many people here that do a great job rating them, I don't know how to support the DLC model outside of add-on modules to the game.

Regardless, I am still staying here, offering ideas and support and hoping for the best. If nothing else this community deserves it for it's loyalty and Paul deserves it for taking a chance to give us what we want.

Lee,
As always I respect your views and have no question concerning Paul's sincerity. This has to be a "labor of love" for him...or he's suffering from a clinical case of masochism.

I do, however, wonder about his judgment. I simply can't understand why he would release the game with so many attendant bugs.

Was he under some sort of contractual deadline? Did he feel "bullied" into putting something/anything out by the members of the forum?

I've read through the threads and privately solicited the views of forum members whom I hold in high regard. Unfortunately, the feedback has not been positive, and the sage advice I've received was not to touch TB 2013 with the proverbial ten-foot pole.

I'm wondering if the problems associated with TB 2013 have not "poisoned-the-well" to the degree that it will take an inordinate amount of time for the game to regain credibility.

Personally, I was satisfied with TBCB 2.5. I have no desire for a RPG/management boxing simulation. Yet. that's what many here appeared to have wanted, and I felt that, given their loyalty and enthusiasm for the game, they had a legitimate demand.

So I raised a voice, banged a pot, and got on the bus as an expression of support. I'm just hoping that I didn't buy a ticket that takes me on a trip down the road to Perdition.

Your positive thoughts concerning the game's future are refreshing and hopefully inspiring.

Being a realist qua cynic, I'm just wondering how we got to this point and what we can do to avoid a return trip in the future.

Prof

Antonin · 02-23-2015, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

...Regardless, I am still staying here, offering ideas and support and hoping for the best...

I'm staying here because the TBCB 2.5 community is here.

I offered ideas and support in the past, but one of the things I said in the past was that the absolute worst thing for a business to do is take its customers for granted.

I'm too old to keep caring and supporting just for the sake of caring and supporting. It's just a computer simulation, after all.

TBCB 2.5 does pretty much what I want it to do with just a little bit of imagination. Of course there are features I wish it had, but it's pretty good as is.

Jackyle · 02-23-2015, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonin

I'm staying here because the TBCB 2.5 community is here.

I'm too old to keep caring and supporting just for the sake of caring and supporting. It's just a computer simulation, after all.

TBCB 2.5 does pretty much what I want it to do with just a little bit of imagination. Of course there are features I wish it had, but it's pretty good as is.

I think that sums it up for me. I have lots of ideas but with some creativity on my end I end up getting something that I really enjoy.

Lee · 02-23-2015, 08:55 PM

I think you have some good points professor and 2013 was likely rushed to give the public something new. More than some of the bugs, was the fact that Paul didn't have time to fully hammer them out with the OOTP obligations. In hindsight I think he would probably do it differently, as I think it has turned some people off.

I am the eternal optimist though, and while I am happy with 2.5 and working on the text here and there for 2013 and beyond I am not really focusing on the next version, so I can just be happy when work does resume on it.

Hanson Bros · 02-24-2015, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

I have been running 2.5 on Windows 8.1 with no issue. What sorts of problems are people having?

what happened with me is that during fight card matches the game would crash ... not every fight but 3-4 times during a 6 fight card ... I turned the sound off and now it is not crashing but getting used to playing without the sound has been tough

Hank1974 · 02-24-2015, 11:45 AM

As I'm preparing to pull the trigger on this purchase, can anyone tell me what the difference is between 2.5 and '13?

Will I be missing anything significant by going with 2.5 over '13?

Thanks!

bob_bask · 02-24-2015, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank1974

As I'm preparing to pull the trigger on this purchase, can anyone tell me what the difference is between 2.5 and '13?

Will I be missing anything significant by going with 2.5 over '13?

Thanks!

Been a while since I used '13, but I can't think of anything it has that 2.5 doesn't.

02-12-2015, 08:39 PM	#1
American_Ernesider Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 365	I think I've reached the end of my patience with TBCB 2013 I have really tried to be supportive of TBCB 2013, but I run into so many problems and I don't know that I've seen any fixes or each issue is difficult o replicate or even understand. I started a new universe and decided I would just work with the fighters in the game itself. Initially things ran pretty smooth and I was excited to get into this universe. I think I saved and closed the game, and then when I went back into that universe, everything was messed up. I had a FLY that was listed as a HW, but that didn't start the game that way, and I felt I had no other choice but to restart. I thought maybe it had somehing to do with updating the data pool option, so I started a new game and go it all setup. I decided I wouldn't try doing any sorts of updating the data pool, etc. Again, things were running smoothly until it crashed during an auto-scheduler event, but I had saved the game... I go back into it and the game essenially changed half of whatever I did. I had updated any HWT that was born beween 1940-1944 as Prime, so I was surprised when a fighter I had changed to Prime was now listed as "End" and all of a sudden he was listed as MW?? Changes it made somehow-- Muhammed Ali from a 15 Prime HW to a 0 End WW Sonny Liston went from an 8 Postprime HW a 0 Prime HW Pierro Tomasoni from a HW to a FW Stan Ward and Ron Stander from HW to MW Thad Spencer from HW to BW Just checking over the universe I hadn't even touched yet -- China Smith, Fabio Moli, Dante Craig, and Kendrick Releford are the op rated HWs. I just don't even know where to begin and I try thinking what might be the problem, but it seems like I can't even get going because these random changes that I can't account for. If I tried importing a bunch of fighter files, I could get it, but whether it's RFG issues or these weird changes I really don't know what to do.

02-13-2015, 03:45 PM	#3
Hanson Bros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,006	I might be in trouble with my universe ... got a new computer and 2.5 won't work with Windows 8.1 ..... it shuts down nearly every fight I run .... so either I am gonna have to buy a monitor and another computer desk just to have my old computer for 2.5 or figure something else out ... just think 2013 is too buggy for my 11 year old universe __________________ LBA UTBA3

02-22-2015, 01:48 PM	#7
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 8,074	Considering the unending cycle of OOTP revisions and updates, it certainly seems that our poor over-worked Bob Cratchet of a programmer is years away from a workable career-oriented boxing sim. I can't really blame the guy. There are only so many hours in a day and unless you're a hermit in a cave, you've got personal commitments that have to take priority over a project that can't be generating much revenue. I dislike Windows 8 and had it replaced with Win-7 so I could continue using my laptop for Title Bout. Maybe the next version of Windows will be friendlier but I seriously doubt it. All the kids and tech-heads have tablets and whatever else that Microsoft sees as the future, so once again we're left behind in a cloud of dust for Windows 9 and all things connected. (Microchip in the brain anyone?) I wonder how many sports games came out, were obsessed over by a minority of players who begged for improvements, only to be abandoned and forgotten by the producers? One of my favourites was "Old Time Baseball". Brilliant concept with a few problems that were never fixed. The company moved on to the next great thing that would sell units before being left behind too. It's the nature of the business. No producer wants a game that can be played forever. That's crazy. Where's the profit in that? So short of one of us fanatics winning the lottery, it seems to me that we need to turn to crowd-sourcing to generate the kind of money needed to afford a full-time programmer. There are about six or seven hundred million people in Europe and North America. A big percentage of that is males. A large faction of that is males interested in sports. A chunk of that are males of the right age who have money to spend on sports games. That leaves at least a thousand guys willing to fund a boxing sim. Would you believe a hundred..... Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

02-22-2015, 02:58 PM	#8
professordp Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,006	Cap, Your points, all good, in the first paragraph raise a question in my mind. If Paul has time constraints and it's a project that isn't generating much $$$, why the heck did he buy it in the first place???? You're spot on about nobody wanting to produce a game that plays forever within the context of profit. Still, there have been game companies, APBA and PC Action come to mind immediately, who have been around for some time and pretty much sell the same game, albeit with "new and improved" bells and whistles. They make a good deal of their money through selling updated ratings.to existing owners. Come to think of it, that's the common practice for the overwhelming majority of companies that sell sports simulation games. It's pretty much common sense. If I shelled out $50.00 for a game and I like it, I'll be more than willing to part with $20.00 each year for updated ratings. Just thinking aloud here, but did the "explosion" of free "homebrew" ratings, offered here in the forum, ultimately serve to cripple TBCB with respect to potential $$$ in the long haul? I mean how can you attempt to sell something if it's being given away for free? Even within the simulation of boxing, table top games like those put out by Downey and Rob Lennon's Diggin' Deep Boxing sell annual ratings updates. If my memory serves me well, didn't the Trunzo brothers do this also when Title Bout was under the AH flag? Perhaps Andreas, the Tunzos, or someone else might have dropped the ball here by failing to exercise their copyright prerogatives, but perhaps we fans of TBCB bear some of the fault ourselves in retrospect. I along with many others have offered free boxer ratings at this forum with the best of intentions. Then again, it's been said that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Prof __________________ A Partial Eclipse of the Sonny Laszlo Papp: The Lost Years The Spice O' Life Teofilo Stevenson Pro Simulation

02-22-2015, 03:20 PM	#9
Antonin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,559	Year after year after year, the OOTP Baseball cycle has been cited as the "reason" for not working on TBCB. I've given up on any future versions of TBCB and on any fixes for TBCB2013. __________________ "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" - Johnny Rotten (Sex Pistols), San Francisco, 14 January 1978

02-13-2015, 12:19 PM	#2
SAL Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Joplin MO Posts: 5,732	I feel for you American. I was so frustrated with 2013 that I've uninstalled it from my computer. I'm back to 2.5. I even ordered the new Advanced Titlebout board game the other day. Hope it's as good as the old one.

02-13-2015, 04:40 PM	#4
hamed2 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 3,265	I know what you guys mean & I had some issues initially with it as well on my new computer. I hope I don't jinx myself here but now things seem pretty stable so I hope it improves for all of you too!

02-22-2015, 04:39 PM	#11
Lee Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Scorched Desert Posts: 4,653	I am a big supporter of Paul and the issue is he is still contracted to work on OOTP, so the money part of it aside, he really has no choice. In my conversations with him, it seems he bought TB as a labor of love and truly is committed to working it into a playable product. He is still compiling research on the design quorum and still has a bugs list to fix. My concern, like many others is, this game is played by an 'aging' crowd and while we are loyal, something needs to be released to bring in younger fans or just new boxing stalwarts and time really is of the essence to do so. The key part is making a career sim, once that is done I think a prudent business model would be to follow what Adam Ryland does, release a new version of the game every 2-3 years and in the interim provide small updates that can be sold as DLC. A big detriment there however, is there is so much already available for free (in terms of fighters) and so many people here that do a great job rating them, I don't know how to support the DLC model outside of add-on modules to the game. Regardless, I am still staying here, offering ideas and support and hoping for the best. If nothing else this community deserves it for it's loyalty and Paul deserves it for taking a chance to give us what we want.

02-23-2015, 08:55 PM	#17
Lee Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The Scorched Desert Posts: 4,653	I think you have some good points professor and 2013 was likely rushed to give the public something new. More than some of the bugs, was the fact that Paul didn't have time to fully hammer them out with the OOTP obligations. In hindsight I think he would probably do it differently, as I think it has turned some people off. I am the eternal optimist though, and while I am happy with 2.5 and working on the text here and there for 2013 and beyond I am not really focusing on the next version, so I can just be happy when work does resume on it.

02-24-2015, 11:45 AM	#19
Hank1974 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Kingsville, ONT Posts: 148	As I'm preparing to pull the trigger on this purchase, can anyone tell me what the difference is between 2.5 and '13? Will I be missing anything significant by going with 2.5 over '13? Thanks!