Can OOTP utilize 64gb of RAM?

Caporegime · 01-08-2015, 11:20 AM

I'm building new PC and I'm seriously considering going full bore on this thing and maxing out the amount of RAM my mobo can handle. I know there aren't many apps, including games, that even come close to utilizing that amount of RAM, but how about OOTP?

Is OOTP even 64 bit? Maybe I should ask that first?

At any rate, thanks in advance for any info.

DustinthePOWERHOUSE · 01-08-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

I'm building new PC and I'm seriously considering going full bore on this thing and maxing out the amount of RAM my mobo can handle. I know there aren't many apps, including games, that even come close to utilizing that amount of RAM, but how about OOTP?

Is OOTP even 64 bit? Maybe I should ask that first?

At any rate, thanks in advance for any info.

Are there any games that can maximize that kind of RAM? That's an insane amount...

RchW · 01-08-2015, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

I'm building new PC and I'm seriously considering going full bore on this thing and maxing out the amount of RAM my mobo can handle. I know there aren't many apps, including games, that even come close to utilizing that amount of RAM, but how about OOTP?

Is OOTP even 64 bit? Maybe I should ask that first?

At any rate, thanks in advance for any info.

AFAIK OOTP is a 32bit application. I was going to ask if it would ever be a 64bit app.

Caporegime · 01-08-2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

AFAIK OOTP is a 32bit application. I was going to ask if it would ever be a 64bit app.

I guess that answers my question. If I'm not mistaken, 32bit apps can only utilize 2-3GB of RAM max?

Bummer...

Tram2Whitaker · 01-08-2015, 11:43 AM

It's not like it has graphics or anything too taxing. I am curious though, because 15 runs a lot slower than the older games, and requires a larger display apparently.

Caporegime · 01-08-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tram2Whitaker

It's not like it has graphics or anything too taxing. I am curious though, because 15 runs a lot slower than the older games, and requires a larger display apparently.

Of course not. OOTP is (was? I'm not sure anymore) a text sim in which RAM was far more important than GPU clock speed or RAM amt/speed. It's primarily a numbers crunching app, isn't it? If so, than cpu speed/RAM amount/speed should be the primary factors in determining it's raw performance.

I'm not a programmer, so perhaps I'm not grasping this correctly.

Cryomaniac · 01-08-2015, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

I guess that answers my question. If I'm not mistaken, 32bit apps can only utilize 2-3GB of RAM max?

Bummer...

IIRC it's 4GB, but I might be wrong.

Charlie Hough · 01-08-2015, 12:57 PM

If OOTP is 32-bit, which I believe it is, then you will get no real benefit from having all that RAM. The program won't be able to use all of your processing cores, assuming that you would have at least four. Without being able to use all those cores in conjunction with the RAM, you're not going to get much of an advantage in performance.

RchW · 01-08-2015, 01:03 PM

Would it be a major undertaking to make it a 64bit app?

Charlie Hough · 01-08-2015, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Would it be a major undertaking to make it a 64bit app?

Considering that the vast majority of quality software programs have already made this move, I don't think it can be all that difficult.

There are a number of issues and challenges that can come up when trying to migrate or convert applications to 64-bit, but, at this stage, everyone has already done the trial and error, and there are countless resources, including from Microsoft and Apple, that can be used to provide guidance and troubleshooting.

There are simply far too many applications running in 64-bit for developers to have any excuse for not going in this direction anymore.

chucksabr · 01-08-2015, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

I'm building new PC and I'm seriously considering going full bore on this thing and maxing out the amount of RAM my mobo can handle. I know there aren't many apps, including games, that even come close to utilizing that amount of RAM, but how about OOTP?

Is OOTP even 64 bit? Maybe I should ask that first?

At any rate, thanks in advance for any info.

Are you saying that your computer will have 64 gb of RAM and a 64 bit OS?

The Wolf · 01-08-2015, 03:16 PM

"32-bit x86 RAM limit

In non-PAE modes of x86 processors, the RAM is always limited to 4 GB.

Limits on memory and address space vary by platform and operating system, and on Windows by whether the IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE value of the LOADED_IMAGE structure and 4-gigabyte tuning (4GT) are in use.

Limits on physical memory for 32-bit platforms also depend on the Physical Address Extension (PAE), which allows 32-bit systems to use more than 4 GB of physical memory.

PAE and 64-bit systems can address up to the full address space of the x86 processor."

canadiancreed · 01-08-2015, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Would it be a major undertaking to make it a 64bit app?

If I understand correctly*, it would require an entire rewrite over many if not all of the code itself.

* - I dont' have enough experience in the language that Markus uses to code OOTP in, so take it with a grain of salt, from what those I know in the industry with experience, going from 32 to 64 for their work usually involved just rewriting the whole thing. It made it easier to avoid cross contamination.

Biggio509 · 01-08-2015, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caporegime

I'm building new PC and I'm seriously considering going full bore on this thing and maxing out the amount of RAM my mobo can handle. I know there aren't many apps, including games, that even come close to utilizing that amount of RAM, but how about OOTP?

Is OOTP even 64 bit? Maybe I should ask that first?

At any rate, thanks in advance for any info.

If you are building a system always go for as much RAM as you can afford. I don't think one program will use 64 g but the more RAM the better. Remember windows is and always has been a memory hog. One thing I have always noticed about every version of windows (up to 7) as each service pack uses more and more memory.

So it isn't just OOTP it is the OS and the programs running in the background. Your AV uses memory while you are playing. You always want to avoid using page file memory. Your HD is the slowest thing and when it has to access the HD for memory everything slows down.

While OOTP may not need that much RAM if you keep the computer for a long time, my current build is 8 years old with only the video card being updated a few times, you never know what future updates, AVs, etc might tax your system.

If you are on a budget I might start with half that or less. I only have 4 g and have never had a problem. I do notice there is page file memory accessed. I don't play WOW though!

You can always add more memory fairly cheaply and easily.

Having a processor usage and memory monitor is the best way to figure out if you need more. In windows, there is a gadget that you can put on the side bar that tracks this. You can see how your processor and memory gets hits. At 4 gb I am running at about 60 to 70% memory usage just from windows and AV running.

Cryomaniac · 01-09-2015, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I don't think one program will use 64 g

Things like photoshop, AutoCAD, 3D Max, etc probably can use that much memory.

canadiancreed · 01-09-2015, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Things like photoshop, AutoCAD, 3D Max, etc probably can use that much memory.

They can and do, especially 3D software like AutoCAD and 3DMax. A lot of server software also can eat up memory like candy.

Charlie Hough · 01-09-2015, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I don't think one program will use 64 g but the more RAM the better.

This is generally true, but if you use professional grade software for video or music production, you can definitely get into these levels of RAM usage.

In fact, the latest version of one product now requires quad-core systems and 8 GB of RAM as an absolute minimum baseline, and that's just for small, home-based types of production. For major professional projects, you will easily get well above this minimum requirement.

But that's definitely not a product like OOTP.

Caporegime · 01-09-2015, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksabr

Are you saying that your computer will have 64 gb of RAM and a 64 bit OS?

Yes. That much RAM would be utterly wasted with a 32 bit OS. If fact, it'll probably utterly wasted anyway.

jpeters1734 · 01-09-2015, 01:12 PM

I'm not sure where I heard it or if it's even true, but I think they are working on making ootp 64 bit

Matt Arnold · 01-09-2015, 01:29 PM

OOTP can use 64gb. I'll pm you the address to mail the sticks to...

As for the software, the other guys laid it out. I don't think the game would actually be hard to convert to 64 but (assuming out libraries support it). The convert to 64bit either has trouble when messaging is involved, or if you use a lot of Windows-specific type functions. We do neither, so it probably wouldn't be tough. The problem is that it's essentially useless unless if we actually had something to do with the memory. In fact, often 64 bit programs run slower as stuff bloats, and some operations become more costly. So it wouldn't actually do us any good. The next step to improving speed will be from 1. Fixing stupid things that Markus did in code and 2. Multi-threading. 1 is in progress, 2 hopefully will come in the next year or 2.

01-08-2015, 11:20 AM	#1
Caporegime All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Borough of Kings Posts: 1,714	Can OOTP utilize 64gb of RAM? I'm building new PC and I'm seriously considering going full bore on this thing and maxing out the amount of RAM my mobo can handle. I know there aren't many apps, including games, that even come close to utilizing that amount of RAM, but how about OOTP? Is OOTP even 64 bit? Maybe I should ask that first? At any rate, thanks in advance for any info. __________________ "If you don't know where you are going, you'll wind up someplace else." - Lawrence Peter Berra

01-08-2015, 11:43 AM	#5
Tram2Whitaker All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 619	It's not like it has graphics or anything too taxing. I am curious though, because 15 runs a lot slower than the older games, and requires a larger display apparently. __________________ 404'd!

01-08-2015, 01:03 PM	#9
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Would it be a major undertaking to make it a 64bit app? __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

01-09-2015, 01:12 PM	#19
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,186	I'm not sure where I heard it or if it's even true, but I think they are working on making ootp 64 bit __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

01-08-2015, 12:57 PM	#8
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,640	If OOTP is 32-bit, which I believe it is, then you will get no real benefit from having all that RAM. The program won't be able to use all of your processing cores, assuming that you would have at least four. Without being able to use all those cores in conjunction with the RAM, you're not going to get much of an advantage in performance.

01-09-2015, 01:29 PM	#20
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,797	OOTP can use 64gb. I'll pm you the address to mail the sticks to... As for the software, the other guys laid it out. I don't think the game would actually be hard to convert to 64 but (assuming out libraries support it). The convert to 64bit either has trouble when messaging is involved, or if you use a lot of Windows-specific type functions. We do neither, so it probably wouldn't be tough. The problem is that it's essentially useless unless if we actually had something to do with the memory. In fact, often 64 bit programs run slower as stuff bloats, and some operations become more costly. So it wouldn't actually do us any good. The next step to improving speed will be from 1. Fixing stupid things that Markus did in code and 2. Multi-threading. 1 is in progress, 2 hopefully will come in the next year or 2.