Height and Weight should matter

[frangipard]

It annoys me when I see a 230 pound slap hitter, or a 5'9" power pitcher, or a 6'5" C or 2B. Those players exist IRL, but they are very very rare. If height and weight are going to be in the game, they need to be relevant.

Tall = helps with hitting and throwing with power/velocity. Helps with 1B defense. Hurts Turn DP and Catching Ability. Hurts Eye rating for hitters.

Heavy = helps hitting and throwing with power/velocity, hurts speed, hurts Turn DP, helps Catching Ability.

Short/Light do the opposite.

[Bluenoser]

Height is relevant for pitchers in game, although I'm not sure if it's in the way you're mentioning. Markus mentioned it last year I believe.

Not sure about batters though.

[rpriske]

Please no.

This comes back to a 'we aren't selling jeans' argument.

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by rpriske

Please no.

This comes back to a 'we aren't selling jeans' argument.

No, it doesn't. The point isn't that you draft a guy because he's big, the point is that the game should reflect reality: players with certain skills tend to have certain body types.

Yes, it's theoretically possible to imagine a 5'8" power hitting first baseman, or a 250 pound slap-hitting shortstop, but that doesn't describe reality as it exists. We might as well insist that the game include ambidexterous pitchers because, hey, Greg Harris did it once.


Frankly, I don't even care if the ratings drive the height/weight the other way around -- i.e. if a guy has a velocity over X, then he's more likely to be tall; if he's fast, he's less likely to be fat. That would probably be the easiest way to put it into the game without mucking with the main game engine.

IMO, it takes away from the immersiveness of the game when you're trying to imagine these players and the profile data is so often completely at odds with the performace data.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by frangipard

It annoys me when I see a 230 pound slap hitter, or a 5'9" power pitcher, or a 6'5" C or 2B. Those players exist IRL, but they are very very rare. If height and weight are going to be in the game, they need to be relevant.

Tall = helps with hitting and throwing with power/velocity. Helps with 1B defense. Hurts Turn DP and Catching Ability. Hurts Eye rating for hitters.

Heavy = helps hitting and throwing with power/velocity, hurts speed, hurts Turn DP, helps Catching Ability.

Short/Light do the opposite.

I get the impression that batter average height is about 2" high across the board. This is going to produce the 6'5" guy in OOTP vs the 6'3" guy in real life. My pitchers are very close (BR comparison) maybe 1" less and a few more 5'10" types.

For batter part of the problem is defensive ratings and how easy it is to learn new positions. I suspect that many of the mismatches you see are players that got forced into a position by an AI team and then developed sufficient skills to continue to play. I see several converted OF playing 2B. It should be very hard for any OF drafted to become a regular infielder

As for infielders OOTP uses them like jigsaw pieces SS play 2B then 2B play 3B occasionally SS and 3B play 1B and 2B. That means you are going to see 3B size guys playing 2B and 2B size guys playing 3B. It is a complete mess.

While checking this I saw an AI team had platooned two converted OF at 2B. Neither were oversized for the position

[Lukas Berger]

I'm pretty certain height and weight do matter in game.

As of the changes to the fielding system in OOTP15, they absolutely 100% do matter when it comes to defense and players losing/gaining defensive skill. I'm almost certain they matter in regard to the type of offensive skills a player has as well.

Is it possible you've just seen some exceptions and then assumed that they're the rule?

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by frangipard

We might as well insist that the game include ambidexterous pitchers because, hey, Greg Harris did it once.

People do

Seriously though, I do think height and weight should have slightly more influence.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I'm pretty certain height and weight do matter in game.

As of the changes to the fielding system in OOTP15, they absolutely 100% do matter when it comes to defense and players losing/gaining defensive skill. I'm almost certain they matter in regard to the type of offensive skills a player has as well.

Is it possible you've just seen some exceptions and then assumed that they're the rule?

I didn't read the complaint that way. Of course it should matter. The concern is that you don't see 6'6" 235 lb second baseman or very many 5'10 or less pitchers with great stuff IRL. See below for a guy drafted as an OF with some rudimentary 2B skills I'm guessing. He started to get some 2B time in his 3rd year then bounced around the minors. Getting more 2B time in AA and AAA. When he was called up to MLB he became a starting 2B. He is listed as a LF in game but has played primarily as a very bad 2B for 4 seasons in MLB. Another example of a power bat being forced into an inappropriate defensive position because he has threshold skills.

I see it as a problem because in the same league this guy is in, almost all the 2B are below average defensively. The AI is incorrectly choosing batting as the criteria for playing 2B instead of defense as it should be. Good defensive 2B wither on the vine or switch positions because they can't compete leaving mostly poor defenders at a key position.

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I'm pretty certain height and weight do matter in game.

As of the changes to the fielding system in OOTP15, they absolutely 100% do matter when it comes to defense and players losing/gaining defensive skill. I'm almost certain they matter in regard to the type of offensive skills a player has as well.

Is it possible you've just seen some exceptions and then assumed that they're the rule?

I don't think so. I have no way of quantifying it, other than to say I'm legitimately suprised to hear you say that it's a factor in the programming; my impression was that the height and weight were just randomly generated numbers and had no effect on performance or potential than did their birthday.

I think it's very possible that the position issue RchW notes is a major culprit. Certainly the AI in general has a poor time recognizing optimal lineup configuration, and plays guys out of their "real" position too often.

[joefromchicago]

As Bluenoser mentioned, the game definitely takes height into consideration for pitchers. A prospect pretty much needs to be 6'0" or taller to be developed into a pitcher. That hasn't always been the case - Whitey Ford and Three-Finger Brown were both 5'10" - but even in the early days of baseball pitchers tended to be on the tall side.

I'm not sure how the game handles height and weight for other positions, but I think there's some correlation. One of the longstanding complaints here has been that the game doesn't take into account the gradual increase in average height and weight over time. The game doesn't create a lot of players who are 5'4", like Willie Keeler, or who weigh 125 lbs, like Johnny Evers, even if the game is set for the late 19th or early 20th century.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by frangipard

I don't think so. I have no way of quantifying it, other than to say I'm legitimately suprised to hear you say that it's a factor in the programming; my impression was that the height and weight were just randomly generated numbers and had no effect on performance or potential than did their birthday.

Markus & Co. changed this last year or the year before. But yes the AI is not smart enough to put Nellie Fox at 2B and would rather have Ryan Howard size guy at 2B.