Growing a Dual-Threat Prospect

ralphwiggum41 · 09-17-2014, 01:09 PM

Hey all,

I drafted a blue chip SP prospect in the first round of my team's recent amateur draft. Interesting thing is, he also has the ratings to be a blue chip batting prospect (as a catcher). I'd love to grow both sets of tools. Do any of you have experience (either good or bad) trying to develop an elite two-way prospect?

Sorry if this has been asked before - I looked but could not find.

Randy - British Columbia Bombers

PhilledUp · 09-17-2014, 03:51 PM

This is the best advice I've seen.

HTML Code:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-14-general-discussions/237000-dual-players-101-how-develop-next-babe-ruth.html

RchW · 09-17-2014, 04:12 PM

I'll post that link in a clickable form.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...babe-ruth.html

Izz · 09-17-2014, 05:16 PM

Heh--was just coming here to post that same link

mm7607 · 09-18-2014, 03:59 AM

I had a player in one of my long lost OOTP14 leagues with a SP/2B who could win 20 games and hit .300+. I wanted him to play 2b when not pitching. The AI would never do this so I had to manually put him in ever game. The AI always had him bat 9th although his should batting at 2nd or 3rd.

If I listed him at SP he NEVER played 2B, always batted 9th and was used as you would normally us a bad hitter, never as the excellent hitter he was. If I listed him at 2B he NEVER pitched.

So I gave up on him as I don't play out every game and he remained a SP for the rest of the time I played with that league. Eventually his batting ratings died faster then his pitching rating did. BUT when I did manually play him at both positions he never had a problem. He won 20 game twice and led the league in steals and a couple other categories.

So unless you going to nurse a guy along he wont pitch and play the field on a regular basis. If there was a work around on this I never found it.

jpeters1734 · 09-18-2014, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm7607

I had a player in one of my long lost OOTP14 leagues with a SP/2B who could win 20 games and hit .300+. I wanted him to play 2b when not pitching. The AI would never do this so I had to manually put him in ever game. The AI always had him bat 9th although his should batting at 2nd or 3rd.

If I listed him at SP he NEVER played 2B, always batted 9th and was used as you would normally us a bad hitter, never as the excellent hitter he was. If I listed him at 2B he NEVER pitched.

So I gave up on him as I don't play out every game and he remained a SP for the rest of the time I played with that league. Eventually his batting ratings died faster then his pitching rating did. BUT when I did manually play him at both positions he never had a problem. He won 20 game twice and led the league in steals and a couple other categories.

So unless you going to nurse a guy along he wont pitch and play the field on a regular basis. If there was a work around on this I never found it.

You are correct. You would have to set your 7 day lineups and constanly monitor him. Sometimes it's more work than it's worth. I doubt a fix will come because it just doesnt really happen in real life. Even one of the best hitting pitchers in recent times, rick ankiel, had to switch to OF before he could fully develop his hitting.

It's fun to have a guy like that but at the same time, you have to just pick whatever side he will best fit in your oranization.

PhilledUp · 09-18-2014, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I'll post that link in a clickable form.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...babe-ruth.html

Thanks. I get an A for effort, F for execution.

ralphwiggum41 · 09-19-2014, 07:09 AM

Thanks everyone! This is really helpful. Sounds like I can expect a Brooks Keischnick-type player, so I'll curb my plans to expect an ace starter who bats cleanup the other four days. But I'll give good old (young) Raleigh Scott a run at it and see what happens.

Not sure how to include a screenshot, but Raleigh seems about equally good as a SP or a C prospect. Here's the ratings:

SP Potential...
23 Stuff
18 Movement
12 Control
12 Stamina
Groundball pitcher, hits 95-97
Three plus pitches and an iffy curveball

C Potential...
20 Contact
18 Gap
15 Power
9 Eye
14 K's
Bad defense

Opinions on whether to focus on SP or C?

BIG17EASY · 09-19-2014, 09:03 AM

What ratings scale are you using? 1-20?

jpeters1734 · 09-19-2014, 09:06 AM

I'd say catcher. He looks like a Joe Mauer type. He seems like he'll have control issues that may wreck him at the ML.

ralphwiggum41 · 09-19-2014, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

What ratings scale are you using? 1-20?

It's the option of 1-20 with overage allowed. Occasionally guys drift over the 20 range but never past 26.

I'm a newbie poster - not sure how to screenshot the ratings page on my Mac.

BIG17EASY · 09-19-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphwiggum41

It's the option of 1-20 with overage allowed. Occasionally guys drift over the 20 range but never past 26.

I'm a newbie poster - not sure how to screenshot the ratings page on my Mac.

That's OK. I figured that's what you were using. I'd play him both ways until he proves clearly better at either spot. I've had players in fictional worlds who have been impact players both ways, although never at catcher.

jpeters1734 · 09-19-2014, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphwiggum41

It's the option of 1-20 with overage allowed. Occasionally guys drift over the 20 range but never past 26.

I'm a newbie poster - not sure how to screenshot the ratings page on my Mac.

Command+shift+3
Command+shift+4 will allow a selection of a screenshot

Or did you mean to post it on the board?

Cryomaniac · 09-19-2014, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

You are correct. You would have to set your 7 day lineups and constanly monitor him. Sometimes it's more work than it's worth. I doubt a fix will come because it just doesnt really happen in real life. Even one of the best hitting pitchers in recent times, rick ankiel, had to switch to OF before he could fully develop his hitting.

It's fun to have a guy like that but at the same time, you have to just pick whatever side he will best fit in your oranization.

Didn't Ankiel switch to being an OF more because of his lack of control and injury issues, as opposed to attempting to be a 2 way player?

BIG17EASY · 09-19-2014, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Didn't Ankiel switch to being an OF more because of his lack of control and injury issues, as opposed to attempting to be a 2 way player?

Yes, his career was basically over before switching to the outfield. He was never a pitcher/outfielder at any point.

baseballonly · 09-20-2014, 12:09 AM

I would go with C, hitters are always safer than pitchers.

jpeters1734 · 09-20-2014, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Didn't Ankiel switch to being an OF more because of his lack of control and injury issues, as opposed to attempting to be a 2 way player?

Right. I didn't mean to imply he was trying to be a two way player. What I meant was he wasn't able to fully develop as a hitter until he gave up pitching.

ra7c7er · 09-20-2014, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Didn't Ankiel switch to being an OF more because of his lack of control and injury issues, as opposed to attempting to be a 2 way player?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Yes, his career was basically over before switching to the outfield. He was never a pitcher/outfielder at any point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Right. I didn't mean to imply he was trying to be a two way player. What I meant was he wasn't able to fully develop as a hitter until he gave up pitching.

He did have minor league games where he played outfield before making it to the cards as a pitcher. he wasn't exactly developed as a two way player but they knew he could hit, and worked him on it, and IMO that was part of the reason they brought him up to early.

harrumph · 09-20-2014, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballonly

I would go with C, hitters are always safer than pitchers.

Yeah, assuming you've got injuries at normal or high, I'd say just play him as a catcher. He's got a better chance of reaching his ceiling, he (probably) won't tear his UCL, and catcher is arguably the one field position where elite prospects are even rarer than at starting pitcher. Although just how bad is his defense? If his catcher ability is really low, I might flip-flop and say keep him as a pitcher.

Pretty awesome potential either way, that guy. Very cool find.

baseballonly · 09-20-2014, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrumph

Yeah, assuming you've got injuries at normal or high, I'd say just play him as a catcher. He's got a better chance of reaching his ceiling, he (probably) won't tear his UCL, and catcher is arguably the one field position where elite prospects are even rarer than at starting pitcher. Although just how bad is his defense? If his catcher ability is really low, I might flip-flop and say keep him as a pitcher.

Pretty awesome potential either way, that guy. Very cool find.

Or you could move him to 1B, or maybe 3B if he has a strong arm.

09-17-2014, 01:09 PM	#1
ralphwiggum41 Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 9	Growing a Dual-Threat Prospect Hey all, I drafted a blue chip SP prospect in the first round of my team's recent amateur draft. Interesting thing is, he also has the ratings to be a blue chip batting prospect (as a catcher). I'd love to grow both sets of tools. Do any of you have experience (either good or bad) trying to develop an elite two-way prospect? Sorry if this has been asked before - I looked but could not find. Randy - British Columbia Bombers

09-17-2014, 03:51 PM	#2
PhilledUp Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 261	This is the best advice I've seen. HTML Code: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/ootp-14-general-discussions/237000-dual-players-101-how-develop-next-babe-ruth.html

09-17-2014, 04:12 PM	#3
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	I'll post that link in a clickable form. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...babe-ruth.html __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

09-17-2014, 05:16 PM	#4
Izz Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,469	Heh--was just coming here to post that same link __________________ Not only do I play OOTP but I also write science-fiction: My Website A brief history of the Australia-New Zealand Baseball League (AUNZBL 2019-2119)--A Dynasty Report The National Penterham Four-Bases Association--A Dynasty Report

09-19-2014, 09:06 AM	#10
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,119	I'd say catcher. He looks like a Joe Mauer type. He seems like he'll have control issues that may wreck him at the ML. __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

09-18-2014, 03:59 AM	#5
mm7607 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Originally from Fla, now in Ky Posts: 710	I had a player in one of my long lost OOTP14 leagues with a SP/2B who could win 20 games and hit .300+. I wanted him to play 2b when not pitching. The AI would never do this so I had to manually put him in ever game. The AI always had him bat 9th although his should batting at 2nd or 3rd. If I listed him at SP he NEVER played 2B, always batted 9th and was used as you would normally us a bad hitter, never as the excellent hitter he was. If I listed him at 2B he NEVER pitched. So I gave up on him as I don't play out every game and he remained a SP for the rest of the time I played with that league. Eventually his batting ratings died faster then his pitching rating did. BUT when I did manually play him at both positions he never had a problem. He won 20 game twice and led the league in steals and a couple other categories. So unless you going to nurse a guy along he wont pitch and play the field on a regular basis. If there was a work around on this I never found it.

09-19-2014, 07:09 AM	#8
ralphwiggum41 Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 9	Thanks everyone! This is really helpful. Sounds like I can expect a Brooks Keischnick-type player, so I'll curb my plans to expect an ace starter who bats cleanup the other four days. But I'll give good old (young) Raleigh Scott a run at it and see what happens. Not sure how to include a screenshot, but Raleigh seems about equally good as a SP or a C prospect. Here's the ratings: SP Potential... 23 Stuff 18 Movement 12 Control 12 Stamina Groundball pitcher, hits 95-97 Three plus pitches and an iffy curveball C Potential... 20 Contact 18 Gap 15 Power 9 Eye 14 K's Bad defense Opinions on whether to focus on SP or C?

09-19-2014, 09:03 AM	#9
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	What ratings scale are you using? 1-20?

09-20-2014, 12:09 AM	#16
baseballonly All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 806	I would go with C, hitters are always safer than pitchers. __________________ Former OOTP Leagues: CBL-Admirals (2016-17 Champs) MMB-Phillies