Atlanta Hawks

[rudel.dietrich]

As my favorite NBA franchise, this immense cluster **** has made me sad all week. Oddly enough, I have not seen a single thread here on it. I am not going to rehash exactly what the situation is, if you care, then go read about it.

It all stemmed from an e-mail two years ago that apparently has become the e-mail of death.
I have not read the entire e-mail and I do not even think it is public. But based on the parts I did read here are some thoughts.

First off, the owner, Bruce Levenson. He did indeed say some things that were very wrong. But as much as I try to think of myself as a open minded and tolerant person, some of what he said does ring true. I think he said it in a very bad way.
Thinking back, I have attended 9 Atlanta Hawks games in the years I lived in the US. I have also attended over 30 games in Washington DC as well as games in Philly, New York, LA, Charlotte, Orlando and Miami.
And for whatever reason, the Atlanta Hawks do indeed have the highest % of black attendees to these games.
And as much as his comments came out wrong and were tinged with racism towards his black fans. He was even more insulting (but in a very introspective and truthful way) to his white fans.
Many southern whites are indeed uncomfortable attending a professional basketball game where the crowd is overwhelmingly black and black culture in the focal point. Some are uncomfortable to the point where they would rather not attend the games.

It is no secret that Atlanta sucks as a sports city. The Braves are a proud and strong franchise with a shameful fan base. It is a well known joke that you can attend a Braves playoff game and show up 15 minutes before first pitch and buy a good ticket.
They lost their hockey team due to poor attendance and general apathy. And the Hawks draw poor crowds despite being a staple in the playoffs and even advancing to the second round a handful of times. And they played some exciting basketball. Josh Smith despite his shot selection which makes you want to stab a small child, had the ability to make a breathtaking display of athleticism in any given game.
Atlanta should be a good sports city, it has a nice size population and great weather. But for whatever reason, it has one of the most apathetic fan bases in all of NA sports.

The owner of the Hawks could have worded his e-mail much differently. But I do understand and share his frustration with the situation. And I also share his confusion.
He has to deal with apathy and bits of racism among his fan base.

I mentioned earlier I have attended dozens of NBA games. Despite having the image of being a 'black' sport. If you watch the first dozen or so rows of most NBA arenas, the crowd in those first dozen rows are almost 100% white faces.
Atlanta is the only team I have seen in person where that is different. It is mostly black faces and empty seats.

The part of the e-mail where he went off the reservation was his suggestions about how he could increase white ticket buying at the expense of his black fans.
I understand his frustration and confusion, but as the owner of a professional sports franchise he has to know that he needed to word what he wrote in a much different manner.

I think he had a mixture of legitimate 'concerns' and ideas wrapped up in a lot of bad ideas and poor wording.
And let me make my position clear, I don't think an overwhelmingly black crowd is a concern or a bad thing. By concern I am refereeing to his frustration over poor attendance, empty seats and season ticket sales in the bottom 8 in the NBA.
I also think he made some very truthful comments about southern whites but again he did so in wording that really should have been better.

And the net result of all this is that he is now selling the team.


And this leads into a far darker chapter in the Hawks front office. And that is comments and an e-mail by GM Danny Ferry about Miami Heat player Luol Deng.
Apparently Ferry quoted from an internal scouting report that Luol has 'some African in him'
That statement is not even technically accurate since Luol is 100% African by means of two Sudanese parents.
The larger issue is why that line is even in a scouting report? This is supposed to be a professional franchise at the highest level of the sport. Why are teams resources being spent to state information you can find on Wikipedia but also happens to be completely irrelevant for purposes of a scouting report.

Ferry then went on to add his own commentary to the matter stating that African players 'were naturally deceitful and shady'
Ferry is on indefinite suspension and hopefully will be fired. Not just because he is a racist piece of pond scum but because he is a terrible GM with little concept of either basketball, analytics or how to build a franchise.

Even if he is fired, this damages the Hawks for years to come. African players are increasingly more prevalent in the NBA and beyond that are becoming better and better players.
Luol Deng whom I mentioned, Serge Ibaka who is the best African player in the NBA, Georgi Dieng and Giannis Antetokounmpo (Greek citizen but both parents are Nigerian) who was drafted last season, Joel Embiid from this years draft and probably a dozen more.
And perhaps most damaging, the Hawks have an African player on their current roster!
Dennis Schröder is a German citizen but has a German father and a mother from The Gambia.

How is Dennis supposed to feel after what is essentially his boss has serious issues with his genetic makeup?


In closing, I don't understand racism at all. But I can perhaps understand it coming from uneducated lower income people. But I simply cannot fathom how you reach the position of owner of a sport team and GM of a sports team and you say things like what was in that e-mail.
And then to put it into an e-mail is even more unfathomable.

To me it seems that nearly the entire franchise needs shake up starting at the top. The owner has already commited himself to selling off the team.
I hope the next owner is interested in the attendance issue but has ideas that stetch beyond hiring 'white cheerleaders', playing 'country music' and 'having more white people on the kiss cam'
For ****s sake, I am an amateur sports economist and I can come up with dozens of non racial offensive ideas to drive attendance to Atlanta Hawks games.
And more importantly, the GM and scouting department need to be completely dismantled as well.
If their analysis for building a winning basketball game includes analyzing players for their level of 'Africaness' then they have no goddamn clue as what they are doing. The idea that they are paid to build a basketball team causes deep stabbing pain in my head when I try and think about it.


Does anyone else have any comments? Can they shed any light into how these people ascended to their current positions? Does anyone feel I am thinking about the situation in a completely wrong manner?

[knightdreamer2k]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Many southern whites are indeed uncomfortable attending a professional basketball game where the crowd is overwhelmingly black and black culture in the focal point. Some are uncomfortable to the point where they would rather not attend the games.



Does anyone else have any comments? Can they shed any light into how these people ascended to their current positions? Does anyone feel I am thinking about the situation in a completely wrong manner?

As a black man myself I think a lot of people would have a problem if I said I am afraid to attend a sports event because the crowd is "too white". That line of thought just reminds me why the racial divide still has a big gap in it.

Speaking to your point about educated people with racist thoughts, seems doesn't matter where on the social-economic ladder it usually comes from a lack of understanding. People fear the unknown and that eludes to my point earlier about being afraid to attend a sports event because the race is not your own.

Until we as a country see people as we view ourselves then we will always come to issues of differences.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Can they shed any light into how these people ascended to their current positions?

Some people just have a great way of hiding it, perhaps?

Fortunately, the truth comes out and it bites them in the rear.

I agree, fire him.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

As my favorite NBA franchise, this immense cluster **** has made me sad all week. Oddly enough, I have not seen a single thread here on it. I am not going to rehash exactly what the situation is, if you care, then go read about it.

It all stemmed from an e-mail two years ago that apparently has become the e-mail of death.
I have not read the entire e-mail and I do not even think it is public. But based on the parts I did read here are some thoughts.

First off, the owner, Bruce Levenson. He did indeed say some things that were very wrong. But as much as I try to think of myself as a open minded and tolerant person, some of what he said does ring true. I think he said it in a very bad way.
Thinking back, I have attended 9 Atlanta Hawks games in the years I lived in the US. I have also attended over 30 games in Washington DC as well as games in Philly, New York, LA, Charlotte, Orlando and Miami.
And for whatever reason, the Atlanta Hawks do indeed have the highest % of black attendees to these games.
And as much as his comments came out wrong and were tinged with racism towards his black fans. He was even more insulting (but in a very introspective and truthful way) to his white fans.
Many southern whites are indeed uncomfortable attending a professional basketball game where the crowd is overwhelmingly black and black culture in the focal point. Some are uncomfortable to the point where they would rather not attend the games.

It is no secret that Atlanta sucks as a sports city. The Braves are a proud and strong franchise with a shameful fan base. It is a well known joke that you can attend a Braves playoff game and show up 15 minutes before first pitch and buy a good ticket.
They lost their hockey team due to poor attendance and general apathy. And the Hawks draw poor crowds despite being a staple in the playoffs and even advancing to the second round a handful of times. And they played some exciting basketball. Josh Smith despite his shot selection which makes you want to stab a small child, had the ability to make a breathtaking display of athleticism in any given game.
Atlanta should be a good sports city, it has a nice size population and great weather. But for whatever reason, it has one of the most apathetic fan bases in all of NA sports.

The owner of the Hawks could have worded his e-mail much differently. But I do understand and share his frustration with the situation. And I also share his confusion.
He has to deal with apathy and bits of racism among his fan base.

I mentioned earlier I have attended dozens of NBA games. Despite having the image of being a 'black' sport. If you watch the first dozen or so rows of most NBA arenas, the crowd in those first dozen rows are almost 100% white faces.
Atlanta is the only team I have seen in person where that is different. It is mostly black faces and empty seats.

The part of the e-mail where he went off the reservation was his suggestions about how he could increase white ticket buying at the expense of his black fans.
I understand his frustration and confusion, but as the owner of a professional sports franchise he has to know that he needed to word what he wrote in a much different manner.

I think he had a mixture of legitimate 'concerns' and ideas wrapped up in a lot of bad ideas and poor wording.
And let me make my position clear, I don't think an overwhelmingly black crowd is a concern or a bad thing. By concern I am refereeing to his frustration over poor attendance, empty seats and season ticket sales in the bottom 8 in the NBA.
I also think he made some very truthful comments about southern whites but again he did so in wording that really should have been better.

And the net result of all this is that he is now selling the team.


And this leads into a far darker chapter in the Hawks front office. And that is comments and an e-mail by GM Danny Ferry about Miami Heat player Luol Deng.
Apparently Ferry quoted from an internal scouting report that Luol has 'some African in him'
That statement is not even technically accurate since Luol is 100% African by means of two Sudanese parents.
The larger issue is why that line is even in a scouting report? This is supposed to be a professional franchise at the highest level of the sport. Why are teams resources being spent to state information you can find on Wikipedia but also happens to be completely irrelevant for purposes of a scouting report.

Ferry then went on to add his own commentary to the matter stating that African players 'were naturally deceitful and shady'
Ferry is on indefinite suspension and hopefully will be fired. Not just because he is a racist piece of pond scum but because he is a terrible GM with little concept of either basketball, analytics or how to build a franchise.

Even if he is fired, this damages the Hawks for years to come. African players are increasingly more prevalent in the NBA and beyond that are becoming better and better players.
Luol Deng whom I mentioned, Serge Ibaka who is the best African player in the NBA, Georgi Dieng and Giannis Antetokounmpo (Greek citizen but both parents are Nigerian) who was drafted last season, Joel Embiid from this years draft and probably a dozen more.
And perhaps most damaging, the Hawks have an African player on their current roster!
Dennis Schröder is a German citizen but has a German father and a mother from The Gambia.

How is Dennis supposed to feel after what is essentially his boss has serious issues with his genetic makeup?


In closing, I don't understand racism at all. But I can perhaps understand it coming from uneducated lower income people. But I simply cannot fathom how you reach the position of owner of a sport team and GM of a sports team and you say things like what was in that e-mail.
And then to put it into an e-mail is even more unfathomable.

To me it seems that nearly the entire franchise needs shake up starting at the top. The owner has already commited himself to selling off the team.
I hope the next owner is interested in the attendance issue but has ideas that stetch beyond hiring 'white cheerleaders', playing 'country music' and 'having more white people on the kiss cam'
For ****s sake, I am an amateur sports economist and I can come up with dozens of non racial offensive ideas to drive attendance to Atlanta Hawks games.
And more importantly, the GM and scouting department need to be completely dismantled as well.
If their analysis for building a winning basketball game includes analyzing players for their level of 'Africaness' then they have no goddamn clue as what they are doing. The idea that they are paid to build a basketball team causes deep stabbing pain in my head when I try and think about it.


Does anyone else have any comments? Can they shed any light into how these people ascended to their current positions? Does anyone feel I am thinking about the situation in a completely wrong manner?

Actually it was hockey team"s", not team.

Flames left after 1970/80

Thrashers after 2010/11

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Actually it was hockey team"s", not team.

Flames left after 1970/80

Thrashers after 2010/11

Right, but it is, was and always will be a false hockey market.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by RchW

Right, but it is, was and always will be a false hockey market.

I'm not debating that at all, just pointing out the error.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I'm not debating that at all, just pointing out the error.

Yeah, I didn't mean to make it seem that way. Sorry!

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Actually it was hockey team"s", not team.

Flames left after 1970/80

Thrashers after 2010/11

You are correct, but to speak at the main topic at hand

[rudel.dietrich]

I hate to bump my own thread, but I was hoping for a few more thoughts on this.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I hate to bump my own thread, but I was hoping for a few more thoughts on this.

You mean my thoughts weren't enough?

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

You mean my thoughts weren't enough?

The Sterling thread got about a dozen pages. IMO this is a worse situation in that the Gm of a team who is making actually basketball decisions is using race to against players in some decisions.

Sterling had a history of being bat**** crazy but ultimately had little to do with player decisions. This hurts the Hawks far more since you essentially have a person who is #1 in the player hiring decisions structure. That person has a problem with players of African descent who are becoming increasingly important in professional basketball.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

The Sterling thread got about a dozen pages. IMO this is a worse situation in that the Gm of a team who is making actually basketball decisions is using race to against players in some decisions.

Sterling had a history of being bat**** crazy but ultimately had little to do with player decisions. This hurts the Hawks far more since you essentially have a person who is #1 in the player hiring decisions structure. That person has a problem with players of African descent who are becoming increasingly important in professional basketball.

I agree. It's horrible. Not only for the team, but the league.