Is This a Glitch or Just Horrible AI

[deuelz]

1951 New York Giants draft Hank Aaron #1 overall. 13 days later they release him and he retires. No news of injury, no injury in his history. In fact nothing is in his history.

Anybody ever seen this or have a reason why this would happen? Using the reserve clause and no $ needed to sign draftees.

Thanks for any help with this.

[hefalumps]

I had my #1 draft pick one year decide he just didn't want to play baseball before he ever set foot on the ball field - something about it just not being the life for him. I don't remember what his player profile looked like but there was definitely a league news story about it.

Wish he'd decided that BEFORE he took my signing bonus...

[deuelz]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

I had my #1 draft pick one year decide he just didn't want to play baseball before he ever set foot on the ball field - something about it just not being the life for him. I don't remember what his player profile looked like but there was definitely a league news story about it.

Wish he'd decided that BEFORE he took my signing bonus...

Exactly...if there was a news story on it that would make more sense. But with Hank, nothing. Just struck me as weird.

[goalieump413]

Not even a Moonlight Graham "coulda been" story... Sad.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by deuelz

1951 New York Giants draft Hank Aaron #1 overall. 13 days later they release him and he retires. No news of injury, no injury in his history. In fact nothing is in his history.

Anybody ever seen this or have a reason why this would happen? Using the reserve clause and no $ needed to sign draftees.

Thanks for any help with this.

Can you do me a favor since you're using the reserve clause. Check your recent drafts and see if a lot of the the guys being drafted are getting released soon after being drafted. I'm talking about some of the 1st round picks. Just curious to see what you might be seeing.

[deuelz]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Can you do me a favor since you're using the reserve clause. Check your recent drafts and see if a lot of the the guys being drafted are getting released soon after being drafted. I'm talking about some of the 1st round picks. Just curious to see what you might be seeing.

Yeah I'll check it out when I get home from work. Aaron was the only one I noticed but I really haven't looked at others.

[Orcin]

Unless there is a really good explanation for this, it is clearly horrible AI and makes it impossible to play a meaningful historical game with a draft. I will be interested in the answer to David's question, but even one release of this magnitude boggles the mind.

[Mike45]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Unless there is a really good explanation for this, it is clearly horrible AI and makes it impossible to play a meaningful historical game with a draft. I will be interested in the answer to David's question, but even one release of this magnitude boggles the mind.

Would agree with this except for the fact that he retired a few days later. If the Giants just released the #1 pick 2 weeks after drafting him, he signed on with another team and the rest was history, then I would question the AI. To me, I think there is some player issue here (or maybe a missing storyline) as opposed to the computer AI releasing the player issue

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Unless there is a really good explanation for this, it is clearly horrible AI and makes it impossible to play a meaningful historical game with a draft. I will be interested in the answer to David's question, but even one release of this magnitude boggles the mind.

Well, that's kind of jumping to conclusions and over-dramatizing the issue a bit

I've played meaningful historical games with a draft in OOTP as many others have and not seen this, so it's clearly nothing remotely close to "impossible".

[RchW]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Well, that's kind of jumping to conclusions and over-dramatizing the issue a bit

I've played meaningful historical games with a draft in OOTP as many others have and not seen this, so it's clearly nothing remotely close to "impossible".

Well said.

I'd like to see his ratings.

Did he get an undisclosed injury?

Are there roster limits/issues?

Why no history?

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Well, that's kind of jumping to conclusions and over-dramatizing the issue a bit

I've played meaningful historical games with a draft in OOTP as many others have and not seen this, so it's clearly nothing remotely close to "impossible".

We are talking about Hank Aaron here, not some scrub. That's pretty dramatic in itself. I did not jump to any conclusion. The Giants released their #1 draft pick two days later with no explanation. I think that's weak AI.

Yes, it does not make the game "impossible". I retract that statement. However, weak AI makes the game far less enjoyable for me. I have played quite a bit of historical lately, and I am not overly impressed with the AI. I have seen rebuilding teams make some very stupid moves. An an example, trading a 20-year-old Steve Carlton for two prospects that did not play 10 major league games between them. So my reaction may be tainted by my own personal experiences of late. It doesn't make them invalid. It's an opinion.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Orcin

We are talking about Hank Aaron here, not some scrub.

It's not Hank Aaron it's a collection of ratings that purport to represent Aaron as a 20 year-old. Since no ratings have been shown nor any info on how players are handled in the minors I suggest we don't know what happened. Many things could have happened in 13 days. What if his player file got corrupted and returned zero ratings or no ratings to the AI. His release would make complete sense then.

It may be horrible AI but we should collect more information.

To the OP do you have a backup of this league from before the release? This could help immensely.

[deuelz]

Originally Posted by RchW

To the OP do you have a backup of this league from before the release? This could help immensely.

Unfortunately I don't.

I'd like to see his ratings.

Did he get an undisclosed injury?

Are there roster limits/issues?

Why no history?

If he got an injury it wasn't in his history and there was no league news about it. No roster limit issues...it was November of 1951. When I first looked at Hank the history had him being drafted #1 overall by the Giants. The next entry was the Giants releasing him 13 days later. That same day he retired. Now the history is just blank...no idea how that happened either.

[lejdot]

People get pissed AI makes stupid moves. People in real life make stupid moves. The AI being stupid in some ways mirrors real life. Look at the Padres passing on Verlander.

I traded a 4.5 star pitcher who had an off year for a 4 star RF who scouts deemed an elite prospect, no question.

The RF is now playing AA ball and his average isnt worth a happy meal while the starter turned his career around and is winning 12-15 reguarly and just signed a massive contract.

I look at the situations as yes, you are playing a historical sim, but things changed, events occur which did not happen in real life which means some talents will emerge while others will not.

Side bar, my grandad was watching a grapefruit league game and ordered a hot dog, while it was passing down, Hank Aaron took at extra packet of mustard and my gramps then didnt have one. After some old man bickering, Hank gave up the mustard. When my gramps opened it he must have eft a bit for the mustard to escape sideways as it sprayed over onto Hank Aarons lap when he squeezed the packet. My six degrees of separation from a legend.

[Mike45]

The fact that he DID have history news about being drafted #1 and the Giants releasing him and now after he retired it's all deleted makes me believe something got corrupted.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by RchW

It's not Hank Aaron it's a collection of ratings that purport to represent Aaron as a 20 year-old.

If that is true, then OOTP does not have a historical mode. It just has fictional with real names.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by deuelz

Unfortunately I don't.





If he got an injury it wasn't in his history and there was no league news about it. No roster limit issues...it was November of 1951. When I first looked at Hank the history had him being drafted #1 overall by the Giants. The next entry was the Giants releasing him 13 days later. That same day he retired. Now the history is just blank...no idea how that happened either.

Are you using minor leagues or reserve rosters?

[pstrickert]

This kind of storyline is the subject of another thread: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-baseball.html

I wonder if, because the Aaron retirement happened in a historical league, the retirement story did not get produced. Has anyone seen the retirement storyline in a historical league?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Orcin

If that is true, then OOTP does not have a historical mode. It just has fictional with real names.

You do realize OOTP has many different ways to play historical?

You can play ultra rigidly and have the game do yearly recalcs with players set to join and enter the league exactly when they did irl and retire exactly when they did, along with real transactions and lineups.

You can also go all the way to the other extreme of loading a historical game but turning off the historical controls and letting the dev engine take over completely, in which case it does essentially become fictional with real names.

Or you can pretty much set things up anywhere between those two extremes on the scale.

The specific settings are paramount to determining what's going on with issues in a historical league and to leap to conclusions and start trashing the game without knowing those settings is neither fair nor wise.

That the OP is playing with a draft already means he's not in hardcore historical replay mode. So things are usually going to be a bit less rigid in that kind of setup.

Originally Posted by Orcin

However, weak AI makes the game far less enjoyable for me. I have played quite a bit of historical lately, and I am not overly impressed with the AI. I have seen rebuilding teams make some very stupid moves. An an example, trading a 20-year-old Steve Carlton for two prospects that did not play 10 major league games between them.

For any stupid move a team make make in OOTP historical mode, a real life team has made a much stupider move.

Heck the Cardinals trade of Carlton for Rick Wise was pretty astonishingly stupid irl.

Do you really expect the OOTP AI to make every team function better than actual humans have functioned in history?

Sure, the ai can use some improvement good as it is, but given the data presented so far this is almost certainly not an ai issue.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

You do realize OOTP has many different ways to play historical?

Hey, thanks for the tutorial! I've obviously not played one of these complicated baseball simulations before, and it's really good of you to walk a noob through some of this technical stuff.

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Heck the Cardinals trade of Carlton for Wick Wise was pretty astonishingly stupid irl.

Now you are just showing your ignorance. Read about the background of this trade, and you will learn the reasons behind it.

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Sure, the ai can use some improvement good as it is, but given the data presented so far this is almost certainly not an ai issue.

I suggest that you wait until the facts are in before jumping to conclusions.