Worthy of first HoF entry?

battists · 08-10-2014, 02:38 PM

So, I am starting up my new league. I simmed 10 years into the future, because I am going to play stats-only, and I wanted some history before I began.

I'm looking over the history of the league now, trying to determine whether anyone is worth becoming the first inductee into my Hall of Fame.

Do you think this guy is worth it?

SS Adam Lawrence
G 1194
HR 239
RBI 790
AVG .324
OBP .401
SLG .558
OPS .959
OPS+ 151
VORP 517.9

2x Batter of the Year
7x All-star

The next closest retired position player has a VORP of 284.

Lawrence is far and away the most dominant retired hitter, but there are a handful of still active players who are comparable in numbers. My gut says he is great, but maybe not great enough to be the very first inductee. I want to set the bar fairly high.

Note: This is a modern-style league, in terms of settings.

Déjà Bru · 08-10-2014, 02:45 PM

I just said in your other thread that I was picky about my HoF membership but why in the heck would you not induct this guy? .324 lifetime BA, seven-time All-Star, batting award two seasons?

Boy, is your HoF going to be cavernous, the silence and emptiness echoing with the faint cries of deserving players denied admission. Or something.

You at the door: "The only way you are getting in here, Lawrence, is if you buy a ticket!

Lawrence: "Who cares? You got nothing but crickets in there anyway!"

battists · 08-10-2014, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I just said in your other thread that I was picky about my HoF membership but why in the heck would you not induct this guy? .324 lifetime BA, seven-time All-Star, batting award two seasons?

Boy, is your HoF going to be cavernous, the silence and emptiness echoing with the faint cries of deserving players denied admission. Or something.

You at the door: "The only way you are getting in here, Lawrence, is if you buy a ticket!

Lawrence: "Who cares? You got nothing but crickets in there anyway!"

Haha, good point I guess. I just think I am being especially fussy about the very first one...

Déjà Bru · 08-10-2014, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Haha, good point I guess. I just think I am being especially fussy about the very first one...

You can always kick guys out, you know. It just takes a click (and editing some news stories and player histories), and poof! Gone. Never happened [whistles unconcernedly].

JMDurron · 08-10-2014, 09:44 PM

How long are your seasons? I ask because that's a remarkably low number of games played for a HOF-worthy player. The rate stats make him a no-brainer to me, even if he was a Jeteresque butcher at SS, the low games number just makes me curious.

battists · 08-10-2014, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDurron

How long are your seasons? I ask because that's a remarkably low number of games played for a HOF-worthy player. The rate stats make him a no-brainer to me, even if he was a Jeteresque butcher at SS, the low games number just makes me curious.

It's a 162-game season. Lawrence only played 9 seasons (the league has only been in place for 11 seasons now, so there aren't all that many retired players with great numbers).

He was the 3rd pick overall in the inaugural draft, played one season for the Dallas Diamonds, and then signed with the Jersey Jokers for 5 years / $101 million. He dominated for those five years, never batting below .300, and with lows of 25 HR and 95 RBI.

He signed a 3-year deal with the San Antonio Ghostriders after that, and it looked like the $71 million was a good investment in year one of the deal, as Lawrence batted .330 with 33 HR and 137 RBI. However, in the next season, his 8th, at age 36, he suddenly "lost it." Ended up playing only 100 games, only 22 as a starter, and hitting .214 with 9 HR and 34 RBI.

In looking at his history, he was remarkably durable overall. Doesn't appear to have missed a game due to injury until an elbow sprain during that fateful 8th season. The following season, he tore his labrum in spring training and missed the entire season, costing San Antonio north of $24 mil to sit on the disabled list in the final year of his contract.

Despite that, he attempted a comeback the following year, and San Antonio felt he was worth the risk despite having been burned for a season already. They signed him to a one-year, $14 million deal, but he ended up spending most of the year in AAA, where he only managed to bat .214 with 8 HR and 43 RBI. He retired at the end of that season.

Another interesting note: in those seasons, he played in only 24 postseason games and never made it to a championship series. In the postseason, he batted .390 with 2 HR and 11 RBI and an OPS of .981.

battists · 08-10-2014, 10:09 PM

Another interesting note that may explain why San Antonio was so hot to sign him:

In one season, Lawrence:

a. On June 9, went 2-for-2 with 2 HR and 6 RBI vs San Antonio
b. On July 21, hit a walk-off solo HR vs San Antonio
c. On Aug 30, hit a grand slam vs San Antonio
d. On Sep 27, hit a WALKOFF grand slam vs San Antonio

Jesus. That's 15 RBI in just those 4 games.

snepp · 08-10-2014, 11:07 PM

Looks like an absolute lock to me.

timmermac · 08-11-2014, 01:58 AM

9 years is not enough of a career to make the Hall of Fame - unless the guy was a total saint. I'd probably have to see his individual season-by-season numbers to really know for certain, but my gut instinct says nope.

Drstrangelove · 08-11-2014, 02:25 AM

Too short a career for me. Unless he has a story like:

age 18-24 he was in the Marines, earned a Silver Star and 2 Purple Hearts and left the military to earn money to take care of his indigent parents.

HolyCow98 · 08-11-2014, 01:40 PM

I probably wouldn't elect him as my first inductee. I'd wait a while then take another look at him. His 9 years were great, but that is a short career. On the other hand...he would have been one of the initial stars of the league and been a big part of making the league a success.

In my imagination...he would have been one of the early legends of the league and likely one of the faces of the league. So to me...he'd have the fame part, he has the quality part, but he's a little lacking in the quantity department. I think down the road..I'd probably induct him....but just not as first ballot/first HOFer.

jpeters1734 · 08-11-2014, 03:22 PM

In my fictional leagues, I will actually delete all the top leaderboards guys that was already in the majors from the beginning. I want full careers in my leaderboards.

Matt Arnold · 08-11-2014, 03:33 PM

I would say induct him.

Due to the league structure, looks like he only started at age 30 or so (maybe age 28?). I have to assume that previous to this year, he was a star in another league, hence being one of the few early stars. Then he dominated in your league until age finally caught up to him.

What would he have done had he started his career in your league at age 20 instead? Who knows - but I just have to assume his "Baseball Universe" numbers should be enough to make him your first honouree.

08-10-2014, 02:38 PM	#1
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Worthy of first HoF entry? So, I am starting up my new league. I simmed 10 years into the future, because I am going to play stats-only, and I wanted some history before I began. I'm looking over the history of the league now, trying to determine whether anyone is worth becoming the first inductee into my Hall of Fame. Do you think this guy is worth it? SS Adam Lawrence G 1194 HR 239 RBI 790 AVG .324 OBP .401 SLG .558 OPS .959 OPS+ 151 VORP 517.9 2x Batter of the Year 7x All-star The next closest retired position player has a VORP of 284. Lawrence is far and away the most dominant retired hitter, but there are a handful of still active players who are comparable in numbers. My gut says he is great, but maybe not great enough to be the very first inductee. I want to set the bar fairly high. Note: This is a modern-style league, in terms of settings. __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!

08-10-2014, 02:45 PM	#2
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,742	I just said in your other thread that I was picky about my HoF membership but why in the heck would you not induct this guy? .324 lifetime BA, seven-time All-Star, batting award two seasons? Boy, is your HoF going to be cavernous, the silence and emptiness echoing with the faint cries of deserving players denied admission. Or something. You at the door: "The only way you are getting in here, Lawrence, is if you buy a ticket! Lawrence: "Who cares? You got nothing but crickets in there anyway!" __________________ - Bru

08-10-2014, 10:09 PM	#7
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Another interesting note that may explain why San Antonio was so hot to sign him: In one season, Lawrence: a. On June 9, went 2-for-2 with 2 HR and 6 RBI vs San Antonio b. On July 21, hit a walk-off solo HR vs San Antonio c. On Aug 30, hit a grand slam vs San Antonio d. On Sep 27, hit a WALKOFF grand slam vs San Antonio Jesus. That's 15 RBI in just those 4 games. __________________ Come check out my dynasty report, Funky Times!

08-11-2014, 01:58 AM	#9
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	9 years is not enough of a career to make the Hall of Fame - unless the guy was a total saint. I'd probably have to see his individual season-by-season numbers to really know for certain, but my gut instinct says nope. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

08-11-2014, 01:40 PM	#11
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,735	I probably wouldn't elect him as my first inductee. I'd wait a while then take another look at him. His 9 years were great, but that is a short career. On the other hand...he would have been one of the initial stars of the league and been a big part of making the league a success. In my imagination...he would have been one of the early legends of the league and likely one of the faces of the league. So to me...he'd have the fame part, he has the quality part, but he's a little lacking in the quantity department. I think down the road..I'd probably induct him....but just not as first ballot/first HOFer. __________________ NPBL Enjoying its 60th season Georgia GM

08-10-2014, 09:44 PM	#5
JMDurron All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,262	How long are your seasons? I ask because that's a remarkably low number of games played for a HOF-worthy player. The rate stats make him a no-brainer to me, even if he was a Jeteresque butcher at SS, the low games number just makes me curious.

08-10-2014, 11:07 PM	#8
snepp All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,711	Looks like an absolute lock to me.

08-11-2014, 02:25 AM	#10
Drstrangelove Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 346	Too short a career for me. Unless he has a story like: age 18-24 he was in the Marines, earned a Silver Star and 2 Purple Hearts and left the military to earn money to take care of his indigent parents.

08-11-2014, 03:22 PM	#12
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,280	In my fictional leagues, I will actually delete all the top leaderboards guys that was already in the majors from the beginning. I want full careers in my leaderboards. __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

08-11-2014, 03:33 PM	#13
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,149	I would say induct him. Due to the league structure, looks like he only started at age 30 or so (maybe age 28?). I have to assume that previous to this year, he was a star in another league, hence being one of the few early stars. Then he dominated in your league until age finally caught up to him. What would he have done had he started his career in your league at age 20 instead? Who knows - but I just have to assume his "Baseball Universe" numbers should be enough to make him your first honouree.