OOTP 15 update #3 (version 15.3.11) now available!

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Papa3

Thanks for the link. I missed that post before but I see that historical is affected the same as current day. I'm curious if MLBPA gets involved what the deal would be with retired players. I don't know how far back the MLBPA goes and to what extent it covers players likenesses from the past, but that might actually cause a big hiccup.

If for some reason they force Markus to take out current and past players, I wonder if it would be hard to explain the purpose of OOTP's historical mode if those historical players/real-life stats/true-to-history expansion and transactions, etc were disallowed.

EDIT: I know modders have us taken care of, but could the historical mode itself disappear?

As has been mentioned a few times lately, this has already been decided in court and the case went against the MLBPA/MLB. Player names and data from any sport/league are fair game for fantasy leagues/games under American law.

Likenesses aren't but that's not an issue with OOTP since the photos/facegens are all made by third party modders and not included in the default game.

[Avindian]

Is there anyway we could get a more complete changelog? The nickname thing isn't a big deal to me -- I'd be continuing from a save -- but I'd like to know if it's worth downloading the patch, especially since it would take so long on my awful internet connection. I don't use 3D at all; very rarely even play the games out.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'm not sure what your point is. Is that your legal advice to Markus? The discussion AFAIK was the obvious need for businesses to protect the value of things they own and to point out that such actions are not necessarily sinister on their face. What I find astonishing is the amount of false bravado exhibited by some who feel entitled to suggest how OOTP Developments should respond without writing a check for their share of the costs/liability. Whatever decision is made it seems to me that it will be made by the owners of the business, in their best interests and the best interests of the products they sell. It's easy to be defiant when one is not paying the bills.

I have more but should probably stop now.

I was not suggesting OOTP let it get to that point.

I was responding to the claims that MLB has the right to do this. We don't know for sure that they have this right, as their request was not subject to judicial review. I also can state that, in my own particular industry (information security), it is not unusual for us to seek the removal of information that we might not elect to pursue legal action on if our requests are denied. It is real easy to ask. There is a whole different equation involved to determine whether litigation is pursued when that is the only venue left for resolution. Whether or not MLB "has the right" is supposition at this point. However, Markus can do whatever he wants to do with his product and respond to such requests in whatever means he chooses. Whether or not MLB could get a legal order demanding this is probably not as important as trying to stay on good terms so that licensing/partnerships all stay on the table as possible future business arrangements. The alternative would be the decision to make this a battle line and damage the possibility of any relationship in the future. In those terms, it makes a whole lot of sense to concede this.

[Markus Heinsohn]

By the way, here is the changelog:

Changelog:
- Fixed tiebreaking issues
- Fixed issues displaying award numbers in the history
- Improves contract AI when multiple major / international leagues are present
- Improves parts of in-game AI & scoring
- Fixed some issues with feeder leagues (i.e. college players returning to different colleges when undrafted)
- Various other small fixes & tweaks which I forgot to write down.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Let me comment on the MLB issue one last time. MLB is not the evil empire here, all they did was protecting their trademarks. Now, if team nicknames without artwork (like we had done it for 15 years now) in OOTP is indeed a trademark infringement is probably up for debate, at least in German law (OOTP Developments is a German company) this would not apply. But again, there is of course no point in fighting MLB or complaining about them, in fact we have been in contact with them for quite a while because we do indeed want to get the game officially licensed, as this will help with growing our market. The discussion has always been very friendly. Anyway, that they asked us now to remove the nicknames was simply part of their annual house-keeping routine if you ask me, as at the same time they had Apple take down several MLB podcasts from iTunes. I guess if you're as big as MLB, you'd have to do this every once in a while, otherwise everybody will use their trademarks without permission, which of course is not very fair towards those who indeed pay for a proper license. And the MLB legal team cannot just sit around and drink coffee the whole day, right? So, it's all okay, nobody got sued or threatened. And we'll continue the friendly dialogue with MLB to hopefully get a proper license for OOTP 16 (without crippling the game, of course).

Alright. Markus has spoken. *lol* Have a great weekend guys!

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Cras

Can you please release just update patchers like the previous years. Its not that big of a deal but it is nicer to just install a patcher than download an entire new full game installer.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Statsman1

Even if you bought every FIFA game they ever made, you'd never hear a peep about licensing issues they might be having with the Premiership.

Indeed. Some soccer games have had issues with MLS and the Dutch and German national teams over the years though.

Originally Posted by bwburke94

"Traditional" video games have been allowed to use the names of MLBPA-affiliated current players as well as historical Hall of Fame players. Current players not affiliated with the MLBPA and historical players not in the Hall of Fame are not covered by that agreement, and may have to be negotiated separately with MLB.

I think this has been said already, but a court has ruled that names are not the same as likenesses, so that should be okay.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I think this has been said already, but a court has ruled that names are not the same as likenesses, so that should be okay.

I agree. But there's really no point in fighting MLB over this gray area of trademark infringement when you're trying to get the game officially licensed.

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

And we'll continue the friendly dialogue with MLB to hopefully get a proper license for OOTP 16 (without crippling the game, of course).

That's the concern to many of us. Like not allowing suspensions, to me that would be a game breaker.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by endgame

I'll save my editorializing about how rampant these kinds of discussions get with no real merit.

Let me instead offer you a possibility that may prove useful. Seriously. Hit the randomize team names button a few times when creating a game and see what happens. Thanks. (Utilizing the latest patch, of course.)

Use "Randomize Team Names" button with minor league teams when creating a game as well. You have to be in advanced mode when creating a new game for it to work.

EDIT: You can randomize names in "Setup Your Manager" when creating a new game via the "New Standard Game" option/wizard as well.

[StyxNCa]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

That's the concern to many of us. Like not allowing suspensions, to me that would be a game breaker.

Not having suspensions would be a game breaker?

[BusterKing]

Originally Posted by StyxNCa

Not having suspensions would be a game breaker?

Why would I want to play a new version that has less options? Important options to me. Maybe not to you.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

Why would I want to play a new version that has less options? Important options to me. Maybe not to you.

Agreed! MLB most definitely would want suspensions, drug suspensions, in-game fighting and brawls to be removed.
Story-lines would have to be modified as well. MLB would want anything that in their view could represent their brand in a negative way, removed.
When EA Sports had the MLB license they made them remove manager/ump confrontations.

I personally don't think it's worth it but, Markus is running a business.
If acquiring an MLB license means more $$$$$$ for his company, then he should go for it. I would.
But compromises will have to be made in order to obtain an MLB license.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

Agreed! MLB most definitely would want suspensions, drug suspensions, in-game fighting and brawls to be removed.
Story-lines would have to be modified as well. MLB would want anything they view that could represent their brand in a negative way removed.
When EA Sports had the MLB license they made them remove manager/ump confrontations.

I personally don't think it's worth it but, Markus is running a business.
If acquiring an MLB license means more $$$$$$ for his company, then he should go for it. I would.
But compromises will have to be made in order to obtain an MLB license.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I could live with those things being removed from the MLB quickstart, but it would be very annoying if they had to be removed entirely.

I've posted this before, but I can see the compromise being basically as follows:

The MLB quickstart would have names, logos, etc, but would be completely uneditable.
Everything else would be as it is now, except that MLB team names would not be allowed.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I could live with those things being removed from the MLB quickstart, but it would be very annoying if they had to be removed entirely.

I've posted this before, but I can see the compromise being basically as follows:

The MLB quickstart would have names, logos, etc, but would be completely uneditable.
Everything else would be as it is now, except that MLB team names would not be allowed.

Exactly this. They have no leg to stand on when it comes to fictional leagues. Markus has already said that the coding exists to be able to limit drug suspensions to fictional leagues only. That's what is most likely to happen. But trust me, the modding community would find a way around everything. It would only take a small bit of work to set up a Quickstart that included fights, suspensions, etc. but had all proper team and player names. There's literally nothing to worry about in terms of losing features here.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

By the way, here is the changelog:

Changelog:
- Fixed tiebreaking issues
- Fixed issues displaying award numbers in the history
- Improves contract AI when multiple major / international leagues are present
- Improves parts of in-game AI & scoring
- Fixed some issues with feeder leagues (i.e. college players returning to different colleges when undrafted)
- Various other small fixes & tweaks which I forgot to write down.

Every once in a while he comes out with something like this which makes me LOL!

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Alright. Markus has spoken. *lol*

You guys want to know what I do in a situation like this? Instead of reading through pages of well-meaning but not always well-informed comments, I look up Markus' recent posts and read those if I want to know what's truly happening. Saves a lot of time.

[Chomps]

Markus,

I don't understand what this latest patch will do to the game.

What are nicknames? Do you mean for example that the Los Angeles Dodgers can no longer be called the Dodgers? I thought Dodgers was their name not a nickname.

Please answer the following questions:

What will this patch do to a MLB Quickstart game that I have already started?

What will be the effect on a new MLB Quickstart that is started after applying the latest patch?

Will this patch change the Logos that come with the MLB Quickstart?

Will Minor League Logos and names be changed?

Has the MLB All-In-One download been changed due to this situation?

[truebatman]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

You guys want to know what I do in a situation like this? Instead of reading through pages of well-meaning but not always well-informed comments, I look up Markus' recent posts and read those if I want to know what's truly happening. Saves a lot of time.

I like this, This is exactly what I always do now when I pop on here for any "new" news haha

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by chomps

markus,

i don't understand what this latest patch will do to the game.

What are nicknames? Do you mean for example that the los angeles dodgers can no longer be called the dodgers? I thought dodgers was their name not a nickname.
correct

please answer the following questions:

What will this patch do to a mlb quickstart game that i have already started?
nothing, you will still have the nicknames

what will be the effect on a new mlb quickstart that is started after applying the latest patch?
there will be no nicknames, ie - st. Louis cardinals will be something like st. Louis pelicans

will this patch change the logos that come with the mlb quickstart?
i don't think so if you install the aio mod

will minor league logos and names be changed?
see above

has the mlb all-in-one download been changed due to this situation?
i don't think so, since it's a mod and not made by ootp developments

Markus or beta testers can correct anything that isn't correct.

[Déjà Bru]

Interesting. First, the only things that are changed in the MLB Quickstart are the team names and some of the logos (first screen print). The players are all still real and on the correct teams. [EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure about the logos; I have historical MLB logos loaded for my fictional player/historical MLB leaue and the quickstart may have picked up some of them somehow. Those are antique BoSox and ChiSox logos, for example.]

The second interesting thing is, you cannot just save and rename the old MLB Quickstart and try to start a new game with it in this version like I tried to. Take a look at the message that appears (second screen print). Sneaky.