OOTP 15 Update #3 coming at the end of the week.... - Page 6

Cryomaniac · 05-20-2014, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa3

Don't mean to change the licensing topic but IIRC, this is the patch that's supposed to significantly upgrade 3-D in the game. Is that still the case?

Good question, which I suspect is going to get lost in this thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

In addition to a flat fee, they will also charge a % each game sold. And I can guarantee that a license will start at $60,000+

My guess is that it would end up being more than that, probably much more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bly08

Mods which recreate the real names will still be allowed right?

At the moment I can't see any reason why not. There is a chance that MLB could ask OOTP not to host them here though.

BDMarvel · 05-20-2014, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The MLB team names and logos are all trademarked (if you look at the official club logos closely you'll see a ™ on them somewhere). Businesses have to zealously protect their trademarks or else risk losing them.

Except in a relatively small number of cases, MLB clubs do not own their minor league affiliates—the minor league clubs are separate business entities. Not sure if the umbrella organization of the minors (NAPBL) or the individual minor league teams would have to issue a trademark notice in the case of the minor league team nicknames.

Anyone can put a ™ on anything. It just signifies the intent to claim something as your trademark. It doesn't cost anything. You don't have to talk to anyone or seek permission. Just Alt+0153 and you've done it.

The ® symbol on the other hand is for a registered trademark. This is much harder to get and carries much more legal weight.

For more info: Episode #24: Games and the Law. With Dave Fitzgerald | The Game Design Round Table

Update:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/schedule
I see many logos and names. Not a single ® or even a ™. It seems like MLB® (Don't sue me!) is selective in their defending of their trademarks.
I'm not even sure if they have a registered trademark. this page claims (in verbose text, there is no ®) that "The Major League Baseball silhouetted batted logo is a registered trademark of Major League Baseball Properties, Inc." But the logo I see on this page uses a ™ rather than a ®.

Airdrop01 · 05-20-2014, 08:56 AM

It isn't ridiculous. If you do not actively protect known registered trademark violations, you lose / risk losing the mark. I love this game, but what is ridiculous is that there were not proper licenses in place to start with. And I wouldn't patch unless you want to sit there and rename ten organizations at every level. Arguably the real player names or likenesses shouldn't ship with the game either without MLBPA licensing.

But then, what do I know. It's not like this is my job or anything.

Déjà Bru · 05-20-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

It isn't ridiculous. If you do not actively protect known registered trademark violations, you lose / risk losing the mark. I love this game, but what is ridiculous is that there were not proper licenses in place to start with. And I wouldn't patch unless you want to sit there and rename ten organizations at every level. Arguably the real player names or likenesses shouldn't ship with the game either without MLBPA licensing.

But then, what do I know. It's not like this is my job or anything.

No, you make a valid point. But you have to realize that until recently this game was flying below the radar, to use somebody else's metaphor. My guess is that once it appeared on Steam, it finally became significant enough for MLB to notice. Which is a good thing. At the same time, you cannot blame the developers for going as long as they could without the hassle and expense (which they will pass along to us) of getting licenses. Now they are big enough for it to matter.

Déjà Bru · 05-20-2014, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I strongly disagree with wasting the money to negotiate for a MLB license.

In addition to a flat fee, they will also charge a % each game sold. And I can guarantee that a license will start at $60,000+

Also, you will also have to spend money on legal fees. Unless things have changed since I worked for the Nationals, MLB will not negotiate licenses unless it is though attorneys.

And I have to disagree with this, sorry. Without an MLB component, the game will be handicapped, competing against others that do include MLB. I say this as a fictional player, too. I don't play the MLB Quickstart, I can edit team names, and I can get real logos from the community. Yet I recognize the need to have MLB in this game.

Cryomaniac · 05-20-2014, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

And I have to disagree with this, sorry. Without an MLB component, the game will be handicapped, competing against others that do include MLB. I say this as a fictional player, too. I don't play the MLB Quickstart, I can edit team names, and I can get real logos from the community. Yet I recognize the need to have MLB in this game.

As I said though, the problem is that it's very possible for MLB to force OOTP to take a lot of stuff out of the game in return for a license. Drug suspensions would go with 100% certainty, and I think other suspensions would too. Negative storylines would very likely be affected too. There's also a smaller chance that historical and fictional leagues would have to go too. I would rather the game take a smaller hit by being 100% generic by default than to lose a lot of other realism in order to get a license.

BIG17EASY · 05-20-2014, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

As I said though, the problem is that it's very possible for MLB to force OOTP to take a lot of stuff out of the game in return for a license. Drug suspensions would go with 100% certainty, and I think other suspensions would too. Negative storylines would very likely be affected too. There's also a smaller chance that historical and fictional leagues would have to go too. I would rather the game take a smaller hit by being 100% generic by default than to lose a lot of other realism in order to get a license.

Why would fictional and historical leagues have to go? Fictional leagues have nothing to do with MLB, and if you're talking about MLB leagues with fake players, every console game has fake players in its minor leagues. And Whatifsports.com has a full historical database, as does Strat-O-Matic, so there's no reason to think historical leagues would have to go unless MLB wants more money for those rights (not sure they even have that power) and Markus refuses to pay it.

As for suspensions, I don't agree that they would 100% have to go. Remember, console games are MLB games, so they are wholly based on the Major League Baseball experience. OOTP is a baseball simulation with an MLB component. Perhaps MLB could flex its power and get suspensions taken out of the MLB quickstart, but no way can MLB get them completely removed from OOTP.

OBSL Commish · 05-20-2014, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

And you will pay his legal fees?

I think his customer base would be.

ihatenames · 05-20-2014, 10:13 AM

Good to know on the loss of nicknames. I was planning on starting a new game and will do so before I upgrade with the patch. I'm a lazy man and not ashamed. I will also create a quickstart so I don't have to do so in the future.

David Watts · 05-20-2014, 10:15 AM

Still curious about how/if this will effect historical leagues. Will historical league have to use fictional nicknames too?

David Watts · 05-20-2014, 10:19 AM

.

RchW · 05-20-2014, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBSL Commish

I think his customer base would be.

Not if he gets sued. It's easy to advise others to let themselves be sued when it's not your livelihood at stake. The first salvo may be a injunction preventing/limiting sales.

See, now you have me in apocalypse mode.

The Wolf · 05-20-2014, 10:41 AM

I feel like a dinosaur seeing an asteroid looming high in the sky.

BIG17EASY · 05-20-2014, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I feel like a dinosaur seeing an asteroid looming high in the sky.

Who'd have thought the big bad Wolf would turn into Chicken Little?

(Just joking. I have concerns myself, although I'm not ready to predict OOTP's demise.)

JohnHoward · 05-20-2014, 11:01 AM

Well they can't make him go back and retroactively take them out of old versions. I say go back to 14 and just release patches and updates for it and forget new versions. Release 4 update packages a year and charge $10-$15 per update. The updates no longer have to include any elements other than AI, game engine, display, etc. Perfect the engine and the modders will take care of the rest.

rpriske · 05-20-2014, 11:15 AM

Can the game be set-up so a quick import fixes the names? Kind of like now with the logos?

If so, the hell with MLB.

The Wolf · 05-20-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Who'd have thought the big bad Wolf would turn into Chicken Little?

(Just joking. I have concerns myself, although I'm not ready to predict OOTP's demise.)

I'm not ready for that either. But I know how the MLB has hamstrung other games and how they have treated their fan base and none of that is in the least encouraging.

jaysdailydose · 05-20-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Bah. Every corporate type I have ever met is ALREADY a thorn in everyone's side.

While I won't disagree, things appear to be civil right now.

I don't think a flock of lawsuits to Marcus's desk would be very good for biz.

BIG17EASY · 05-20-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

Can the game be set-up so a quick import fixes the names? Kind of like now with the logos?

If so, the hell with MLB.

Yes, of course. And if Markus isn't allowed to link that mod directly to the game, someone outside of OOTP will post it for everyone to download.

BIG17EASY · 05-20-2014, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'm not ready for that either. But I know how the MLB has hamstrung other games and how they have treated their fan base and none of that is in the least encouraging.

No, it most certainly isn't.

05-20-2014, 08:56 AM	#103
Airdrop01 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lenexa, KS / Wilson, WY Posts: 1,354	It isn't ridiculous. If you do not actively protect known registered trademark violations, you lose / risk losing the mark. I love this game, but what is ridiculous is that there were not proper licenses in place to start with. And I wouldn't patch unless you want to sit there and rename ten organizations at every level. Arguably the real player names or likenesses shouldn't ship with the game either without MLBPA licensing. But then, what do I know. It's not like this is my job or anything. Last edited by Airdrop01; 05-20-2014 at 08:58 AM.

05-20-2014, 10:13 AM	#109
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,534	Good to know on the loss of nicknames. I was planning on starting a new game and will do so before I upgrade with the patch. I'm a lazy man and not ashamed. I will also create a quickstart so I don't have to do so in the future. __________________ New Album coming soon!

05-20-2014, 11:15 AM	#116
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 26,180	Can the game be set-up so a quick import fixes the names? Kind of like now with the logos? If so, the hell with MLB. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

05-20-2014, 10:15 AM	#110
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,757 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Still curious about how/if this will effect historical leagues. Will historical league have to use fictional nicknames too?

05-20-2014, 10:19 AM	#111
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,757 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	.

05-20-2014, 11:01 AM	#115
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	Well they can't make him go back and retroactively take them out of old versions. I say go back to 14 and just release patches and updates for it and forget new versions. Release 4 update packages a year and charge $10-$15 per update. The updates no longer have to include any elements other than AI, game engine, display, etc. Perfect the engine and the modders will take care of the rest.