Draft pool low quality of players?

[HolyCow98]

Originally Posted by Ruthian23

I especially love seeing the 6th round superstar, as that was my major criticism about drafts in some past versions, that you almost never saw a guy who was worth anything at all after the first couple of rounds. It's great to see that.

Looking at the Top 20 career WAR leaderboard (leader has 102.97)

#3 79.84 (7th round pick Pick 3 107th overall pick) *HOF
#6 66.41 (6th round pick Pick 12 100th overall pick) - still active
#10 63.52 (6th round pick Pick 16 101st overall pick)
#14 52.41 (11th round pick Pick 3 171st overall pick)
#15 50.68 (10th round pick Pick 1 145th overall pick)
#16 50.37 (7th round pick Pick 8 104th overall pick)
#18 48.71 (16th round pick Pick 5 253rd overall pick)

7 of the top 20 were international free agents, the remaining 6 guys include 5 first round picks and 1 2nd rounder.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Walsh06

Haha, I like that you think your opinion has some factor on this. If it was done intentionally its not a mistake.

I laugh at your opinion on this, but that doesn't mean that I don't believe that you can't have one.

[tejdog1]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

Meh, when the ratings were high many were complaining that their players were regression at a young age (in the minors) when the game was only adjusting ratings to what we see now on draft day.

But that's the way it is IRL for some of these players. I can only speak to the Mets because that's who I follow very closely, but... they drafted an OFer in the 3rd round, Ivan Wilson, huge upside, his floor is "used car salesman". His upside is like... all star RFer. Why wouldn't I want to see that reflected in the game? Potential: 75. And then as I sim forward 2-3-4-5+ years, either he fulfills that, or he busts.

That's better, IMO, than drafting a potential: 30 from rounds 2 to 40.

[The Wolf]

I will always think that this change was a big mistake.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by Doc_Brown

Lukas, I told you dude you'd receive less invective from people if you didn't have a Mets avatar. If you went with a Yankees one(for example) the "good" people in this thread would probably make you honorary president of something!

If Lukas were a Yankees fan, I would have refrained from adding anything of substance to this thread in support of his viewpoint, purely out of spite.

Speaking of which, I promised everybody a look at my best player, who happens to have been a 1st round pick from my first year with the OOTP14 draft classes. He was a #6 pick overall, but still had less upside in terms of ratings than I was used to from the OOTP 12 and OOTP 13 draft classes.

He has completely blown past my other excellent players, most of whom were drafted in OOTP 13. I think his ratings speak for themselves - the upside of players coming out of OOTP 14/15 draft classes is as high as those from OOTP 12/13 classes.

[JMDurron]

I almost posted him in the "best rookie season" thread, but so much of his value comes from his defense that he doesn't have sexy AVG-HR-RBI numbers, so I thought he might not get quite enough love relative to the other contenders.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by tejdog1

But that's the way it is IRL for some of these players. I can only speak to the Mets because that's who I follow very closely, but... they drafted an OFer in the 3rd round, Ivan Wilson, huge upside, his floor is "used car salesman". His upside is like... all star RFer. Why wouldn't I want to see that reflected in the game? Potential: 75. And then as I sim forward 2-3-4-5+ years, either he fulfills that, or he busts.

That's better, IMO, than drafting a potential: 30 from rounds 2 to 40.

As a fellow Mets fan, I honestly disagree with you on that. I've seen nothing from any reputable sources like PG or BA that indicates Wilson's upside is anything more than a slightly better, right handed hitting version of Kirk Nieuwenhuis. Now that's not bad. It's the upside of a major league player, though not a great one.

Wilson could almost be the poster child for the over-hyping of draft picks that goes on with some members of the media, particularly those who are focused on a specific team.

I've seen him referred to by Mets focused sources as a "five tool" player while even a cursory glance at his PG scouting reports reveals that he's at best a two to three tool guy,

He runs a 6.72 40, which is only a bit above MLB average, it's not even plus speed. That speed flags him as a potential tweener in the OF at higher levels, as it's not really typical MLB CF speed. Plus, he's so big he's extremely likely to lose speed as he ages.

He's also reported by PG as having "close to average arm strength".

He's known for having major, major issues with his hitting, particularly his ability to make contact.

So his only real tool that grades out as a plus is his power, which is not useable at this time due to his issues making contact.

A non biased scouting report would have him as a potential MLB 4th outfielder, with an outside chance at being a starting caliber player but with an unusually high amount of risk in that projection.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

I almost posted him in the "best rookie season" thread, but so much of his value comes from his defense that he doesn't have sexy AVG-HR-RBI numbers, so I thought he might not get quite enough love relative to the other contenders.

That is quite the player

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

That is quite the player

I forgive you for 1986.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

I forgive you for 1986.

Hey, you have 2004, 2007 and 2013 with more likely to come.

I have nothing but 1986 (wasn't alive for 1969) and it's unlikely I ever will have anything but 1986!

[tejdog1]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Those guys who don't stick but are deemed worthy to try are one star players in game. So I'm not sure what you're arguing there.



Not at all. You're highly overrating what teams get from a typical draft.

Look at the Angels list above, taken from a period when they were a top team and considered elite at drafting and development.

I could have cherry picked my Mets or the Tigers or Royals from that same time period and you'd see some really awful drafts, year after year.

The Angels were actually killing it in those years and they only got 13 MLB regulars in 14 years.

Post the 2007 Mets draft

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

As a fellow Mets fan, I honestly disagree with you on that. I've seen nothing from any reputable sources like PG or BA that indicates Wilson's upside is anything more than a slightly better, right handed hitting version of Kirk Nieuwenhuis. Now that's not bad. It's the upside of a major league player, though not a great one.

Wilson could almost be the poster child for the over-hyping of draft picks that goes on with some members of the media, particularly those who are focused on a specific team.

I've seen him referred to by Mets focused sources as a "five tool" player while even a cursory glance at his PG scouting reports reveals that he's at best a two to three tool guy,

He runs a 6.72 40, which is only a bit above MLB average, it's not even plus speed. That speed flags him as a potential tweener in the OF at higher levels, as it's not really typical MLB CF speed. Plus, he's so big he's extremely likely to lose speed as he ages.

He's also reported by PG as having "close to average arm strength".

He's known for having major, major issues with his hitting, particularly his ability to make contact.

So his only real tool that grades out as a plus is his power, which is not useable at this time due to his issues making contact.

A non biased scouting report would have him as a potential MLB 4th outfielder, with an outside chance at being a starting caliber player but with an unusually high amount of risk in that projection.

This is pretty much spot on to what I've seen on Wilson, as well. (Maybe we read the same things.)

[SirMichaelJordan]

This guy...

From OOTP14. I posted him in the late great pick thread. He was selected in the 29th round 😊

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Post the 2007 Mets draft

Oh, don't remind me

At least it had Gee. That makes it better than 2004, or 2003, or 2000, or 1997, or 1996, or...

[Doc_Brown]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Hey, you have 2004, 2007 and 2013 with more likely to come.

I have nothing but 1986 (wasn't alive for 1969) and it's unlikely I ever will have anything but 1986!

If you posted that 2 days ago, this thread would still be on page 1.

EDIT: I might have to start rooting for the Mets, as one of my sisters lives in the place where the Mets AAA team are based. I have some other family who live in the US of A but they live near AL teams, but the DH blows IMHO.

[HolyCow98]

Damn....in leagues where i use 24 or more teams I always have 30 round drafts...and I think the latest a major league player has been drafted was the 23rd round. He wasn't a great player....just a guy good enough to be a utility player for about 5 years.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Doc_Brown

If you posted that 2 days ago, this thread would still be on page 1.

EDIT: I might have to start rooting for the Mets, as one of my sisters lives in the place where the Mets AAA team are based.

Gosh, this is the worst thread ever.

First I get gang-banged for a couple days, then we spend our time talking about all the Mets incredible drafts of the last 20 years, how they'll never win a title again, and how their third round pick from last year is a steaming pile of dog poo.

My internet time's over for the night, time to grab a drink or two

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Oh, don't remind me

At least it had Gee. That makes it better than 2004, or 2003, or 2000, or 1997, or 1996, or...

Hey, at least Nimmo is tearing it up in St. Lucie right now. Maybe that whole "drafting a first-rounder out of high school from a place where there's no high school baseball" thing will actually work out.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Hey, you have 2004, 2007 and 2013 with more likely to come.

I have nothing but 1986 (wasn't alive for 1969) and it's unlikely I ever will have anything but 1986!

I know, I just had to really drive home the "I'm a Red Sox fan who holds grudges!" point. But I repeat myself...

Forever is a long time. It'll happen again someday.

You'll be dead by then, obviously, but it'll happen.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Hey, at least Nimmo is tearing it up in St. Lucie right now. Maybe that whole "drafting a first-rounder out of high school from a place where there's no high school baseball" thing will actually work out.

Oh, how I love Nimmo

Which means he'll probably turn out just like Bobby Malek or something.