What Stats Do You Use - Page 2

gRaider2001 · 04-25-2014, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlton

If this is a league you are managing a team in, ignore OPS+
That is used mostly to compare Babe Ruth with Willie Mays to see which was more dominant compared to their league

OPS is fine to see power,eye, contact

What is a good OPS in your league? Look at ALL the players in your league, via statistics and sortable stats on the right tab, sort by overall OPS, if it's 30 pages to scroll through, anyone on page 1 through 14 has a good OPS

Thank you for providing insight to what is a good OPS+ :-)

The Wolf · 04-25-2014, 12:17 PM

OPS is quick and dirty, and accordingly biased and flawed. Use WOBA (or WRC) for batter evaluation.

Comparing marginal effects of offensive events upon wOBA and OPS ? The Hardball Times

Bobble · 04-25-2014, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gRaider2001

Thanks Booble, for sharing the links and info. I have updated the first post of the thread to reflect:-)

Hey now!

endgame · 04-25-2014, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobble

Hey now!

Aw, man....first real laugh of the day. Thanks!

gRaider2001 · 04-25-2014, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobble

Hey now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Aw, man....first real laugh of the day. Thanks!

Hey Bobble, so sorry about that

Took me a second to figure at why endgame was laughing:-)

gRaider2001 · 04-25-2014, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

OPS is quick and dirty, and accordingly biased and flawed. Use WOBA (or WRC) for batter evaluation.

Comparing marginal effects of offensive events upon wOBA and OPS ? The Hardball Times

Thanks for sharing The Wolf, interesting read. I also added the link to the blog The Hardball Times to my "The Knowledge Thread." Thanks for sharing:-)

BeancheBlanco · 04-25-2014, 09:57 PM

IMO, a lot of the more in-depth stats are only useful as a summary of all the basic stats. As long as you look at all the basic stats, you are getting all the information that is out there. For me, I look at avg, obp, ops, fielding efficiency, WAR, and the split between doubles, triples, homers for hitters. For pitchers I look at era, whip, k-rate, bb-rate, homer-rate, and WAR.

Every one statistic is flawed. All of these esoteric stats that supremacists swear by are just algorithms of the basic stats. I think the key is to build your own intuition from these basic stats and observations of future results.

The Wolf · 04-27-2014, 01:03 AM

Some stats are better than others.

(And some stat's mothers are better than other stat's mothers.)

The Wolf · 04-27-2014, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gRaider2001

Thanks for sharing The Wolf, interesting read. I also added the link to the blog The Hardball Times to my "The Knowledge Thread." Thanks for sharing:-)

You might want to link to this series, it's very educational.

Sabermetrics 101: Wrap-Up (And Announcement!) - Lookout Landing

gRaider2001 · 04-27-2014, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

You might want to link to this series, it's very educational.

Sabermetrics 101: Wrap-Up (And Announcement!) - Lookout Landing

Awesome The Wolf, adding it to The Knowledge Thread right now:-)

mgoetze · 05-16-2014, 03:40 PM

I wish the game had wRC+, but it doesn't so I just use wOBA for hitters. I hardly ever look at overall wOBA though, always looking at L/R splits there.

For pitchers I put their vital stats in a spreadsheet and calculate SIERA. I may use FIP to eyeball things in-game but for serious evaluation I hate relying on any stat that includes IP as a component.

rpriske · 05-16-2014, 03:49 PM

Most important stat for pitchers - WINS

Most important stat for batters - RBI

Oh wait, I thought it was 1978 for a moment there...

The Wolf · 05-16-2014, 04:06 PM

Pitching stats ranked in order:

Tool: Basically Every Pitching Stat Correlation | FanGraphs Baseball

ezpkns34 · 05-16-2014, 04:12 PM

I like to look at the stats as a whole when really looking at a player, but the first ones I look at are:
- ERA+, FIP & WAR for pitchers
- OPS+, WAR & wOBA for batters (& ZR when looking at fielding)

The Wolf · 05-16-2014, 04:27 PM

ERA has the worst season to season correlation of any of the pitching performance stats, and as for WAR for pitchers, well WAR for Pitchers | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

Avindian · 05-17-2014, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

ERA has the worst season to season correlation of any of the pitching performance stats, and as for WAR for pitchers, well WAR for Pitchers | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

He did say ERA+, which I believe is more reliable.

The Wolf · 05-17-2014, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avindian

He did say ERA+, which I believe is more reliable.

When you adjust a garbage stat for ballpark and league, all you get is an adjusted garbage stat.

ERA is not a valid pitching performance metric. It includes the performance of the team's defense and its bullpen. Use FIP instead, which is a valid pitching performance metric.

mgoetze · 05-17-2014, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

ERA is not a valid pitching performance metric. It includes the performance of the team's defense and its bullpen. Use FIP instead, which ...

... also includes the performance of the team's defense (via IP).

The Wolf · 05-17-2014, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgoetze

... also includes the performance of the team's defense (via IP).

FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant

There is ZERO defensive component.

mgoetze · 05-17-2014, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

FIP = ((13*HR)+(3*(BB+HBP))-(2*K))/IP + constant

There is ZERO defensive component.

I explicitly told you which of these components I consider defense-dependent, so you're not really advancing the discussion here.

But it's so obvious to me that a pitcher with a great defense behind him will have a higher IP than a pitcher with a weak defense behind him that I don't even consider it worth talking about, so I'm not too bothered.

Those willing to calculate something but who think SIERA is too complex might also consider kwERA: 5.40 - 12*(K-BB)/PA.

Or you could of course just replace the IP in FIP with PA/4.3. Upgrade to xFIP while you're at it by replacing 13*HR by 1.4*FB.

04-25-2014, 09:57 PM	#27
BeancheBlanco Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 146	IMO, a lot of the more in-depth stats are only useful as a summary of all the basic stats. As long as you look at all the basic stats, you are getting all the information that is out there. For me, I look at avg, obp, ops, fielding efficiency, WAR, and the split between doubles, triples, homers for hitters. For pitchers I look at era, whip, k-rate, bb-rate, homer-rate, and WAR. Every one statistic is flawed. All of these esoteric stats that supremacists swear by are just algorithms of the basic stats. I think the key is to build your own intuition from these basic stats and observations of future results. Last edited by BeancheBlanco; 04-25-2014 at 09:59 PM.

05-16-2014, 03:49 PM	#32
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 26,606	Most important stat for pitchers - WINS Most important stat for batters - RBI Oh wait, I thought it was 1978 for a moment there... __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

05-16-2014, 03:40 PM	#31
mgoetze Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 205	I wish the game had wRC+, but it doesn't so I just use wOBA for hitters. I hardly ever look at overall wOBA though, always looking at L/R splits there. For pitchers I put their vital stats in a spreadsheet and calculate SIERA. I may use FIP to eyeball things in-game but for serious evaluation I hate relying on any stat that includes IP as a component.

05-16-2014, 04:12 PM	#34
ezpkns34 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 737	I like to look at the stats as a whole when really looking at a player, but the first ones I look at are: - ERA+, FIP & WAR for pitchers - OPS+, WAR & wOBA for batters (& ZR when looking at fielding)