Zone Rating Defensive Efficiency Contradiction

Roy Tucker · 03-16-2014, 10:39 AM

I play stats only so I don't see ratings but I am at somewhat of a loss. For defense, I have always focused on zone rating and it has served me well.

This year though despite 3 gold glove winners I am last in the league in defensive efficiency at .681.

My starting 1b has 123 starts at first zr of +7 and eff 1.085
2b has 130 starts + 5.5 1.022
3b has 147 starts +9.6 1.038
ss has 112 starts +5.8 1.027
LF 139 starts -.6 .983
CF 132 +9.6 1.047
RF 152 +13.7 1.083

I have some bench players that are slightly below average defensively but nothiing to bring everything down to a .681 level.

Can anybody think of an explanation for this? I am at a loss.

Déjà Bru · 03-16-2014, 02:30 PM

Heh. Roy, this may be a test of how many of us actually understand this stuff!

Seriously, you may get more response to this question once OOTPB 15 debuts and there are more members in attendance for awhile at least. Among them should be certain statheads able to provide you with your answer, I will wager.

beorn · 03-17-2014, 06:17 AM

The glossary page will give exact definitions of each defensive stat: Out of the Park Baseball Manual
I am no expert on the specifics, but I know that no single stat is the final authority on describing the total picture.

In your shoes, i would first want to know whether my team has a fielding problem... Is the team ranked significantly worse in giving up runs than in ERA?

If you are ranked higher in runs allowed, your fielding is helping you. If you are ranked worse, your fielding is hurting you.

If there appears to be significant fielding problem, I would ask whether this might be a temporary blip. How far into the season are you? Early May -- I'd suspect low sample size. Late August -- I'd look into the matter carefully.

Next, I'd look into some isolated statistics more closely. For each position on the team, where does my starter rank against the rest of the league? Fielding percentage, double plays, range factor, zone rating, errors, etc.

At the same time, keep an eye out for the possibility of a couple reserve players whose stats are so out of line that even in a supporting role, they are playing havoc with overall results.

Don't forget to check pitchers' fielding, too.

JMDurron · 03-17-2014, 07:17 AM

Maybe your catcher REALLY stinks?

My only thought is that your pitchers might be terrible, and are giving up such hard contact off the walls that your fielders aren't being punished for not fielding those uncatchable rockets? That's a complete guess, I'm not sure how OOTP's ZR/EFF for players deals with uncatchable balls, whereas I'm sure team DEF is impacted by it.

Roy Tucker · 03-17-2014, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDurron

Maybe your catcher REALLY stinks?

My only thought is that your pitchers might be terrible, and are giving up such hard contact off the walls that your fielders aren't being punished for not fielding those uncatchable rockets? That's a complete guess, I'm not sure how OOTP's ZR/EFF for players deals with uncatchable balls, whereas I'm sure team DEF is impacted by it.

I think thats the explanation. I had some injuries and was left with serviceable pitchers, and a bunch of also-rans and had the worst bullpen in the majors.

Thanks for the help!

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 03-17-2014, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDurron

My only thought is that your pitchers might be terrible, and are giving up such hard contact off the walls that your fielders aren't being punished for not fielding those uncatchable rockets? That's a complete guess, I'm not sure how OOTP's ZR/EFF for players deals with uncatchable balls, whereas I'm sure team DEF is impacted by it.

This. Team EFF is simply 1.0 minus BABIP. Player EFF is a total defensive efficiency of a player, taking into account all factors, where 1.0 is league average.

JMDurron · 03-17-2014, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

I think thats the explanation. I had some injuries and was left with serviceable pitchers, and a bunch of also-rans and had the worst bullpen in the majors.

Thanks for the help!

No problem!

Oddly enough, if your lousy pitchers were giving up more HR and fewer 1B, 2B, and 3B, your team EFF would be much higher.

rj58 · 03-25-2014, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

This. Team EFF is simply 1.0 minus BABIP. Player EFF is a total defensive efficiency of a player, taking into account all factors, where 1.0 is league average.

Yup.. When making judgements about teams I try to always remember that pitching stats are affected by fielding, and vice versa.

Poor fielding can make pitchers look worse, poor pitching can effect overall defense stats. I think this is what makes managing baseball in the game and in real life so challenging.

Lately I approach my pitching issues as first 'is my fielding doing well?'.. and if it is not.. solve THAT problem and let the pitching stats settle a bit. Balancing defense, batting, and pitching can be a nightmare on a budget.. but it DOES make this game fun as all get out.

03-16-2014, 10:39 AM	#1
Roy Tucker Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 261	Zone Rating Defensive Efficiency Contradiction I play stats only so I don't see ratings but I am at somewhat of a loss. For defense, I have always focused on zone rating and it has served me well. This year though despite 3 gold glove winners I am last in the league in defensive efficiency at .681. My starting 1b has 123 starts at first zr of +7 and eff 1.085 2b has 130 starts + 5.5 1.022 3b has 147 starts +9.6 1.038 ss has 112 starts +5.8 1.027 LF 139 starts -.6 .983 CF 132 +9.6 1.047 RF 152 +13.7 1.083 I have some bench players that are slightly below average defensively but nothiing to bring everything down to a .681 level. Can anybody think of an explanation for this? I am at a loss.

03-16-2014, 02:30 PM	#2
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,741	Heh. Roy, this may be a test of how many of us actually understand this stuff! Seriously, you may get more response to this question once OOTPB 15 debuts and there are more members in attendance for awhile at least. Among them should be certain statheads able to provide you with your answer, I will wager. __________________ - Bru

03-17-2014, 06:17 AM	#3
beorn All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: near Rochester, NY Posts: 1,269	The glossary page will give exact definitions of each defensive stat: Out of the Park Baseball Manual I am no expert on the specifics, but I know that no single stat is the final authority on describing the total picture. In your shoes, i would first want to know whether my team has a fielding problem... Is the team ranked significantly worse in giving up runs than in ERA? If you are ranked higher in runs allowed, your fielding is helping you. If you are ranked worse, your fielding is hurting you. If there appears to be significant fielding problem, I would ask whether this might be a temporary blip. How far into the season are you? Early May -- I'd suspect low sample size. Late August -- I'd look into the matter carefully. Next, I'd look into some isolated statistics more closely. For each position on the team, where does my starter rank against the rest of the league? Fielding percentage, double plays, range factor, zone rating, errors, etc. At the same time, keep an eye out for the possibility of a couple reserve players whose stats are so out of line that even in a supporting role, they are playing havoc with overall results. Don't forget to check pitchers' fielding, too. __________________ Commish of Dog Days Baseball Commish Pennant Chase Baseball League (PCBL) Commish and Blue Jays GM Extra Innings Baseball

03-17-2014, 07:17 AM	#4
JMDurron All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,260	Maybe your catcher REALLY stinks? My only thought is that your pitchers might be terrible, and are giving up such hard contact off the walls that your fielders aren't being punished for not fielding those uncatchable rockets? That's a complete guess, I'm not sure how OOTP's ZR/EFF for players deals with uncatchable balls, whereas I'm sure team DEF is impacted by it.