Play Book Knowledge? And no doubt other questions!

Rumplebeanskin · 03-07-2014, 09:44 AM

Will there be a period of time in the game that will need to pass before a player that is new to your team understands the concepts of your play book? It was always a realistic feature in the NFL Head Coach days on consoles, I felt anyway.

If you went out and signed a free agent, it would take a number of weeks before you could open up your entire play book for them, as more often than not, the player in question wouldn't have enough knowledge to run so many brand new plays successfully straight away. They would often miss blocking assignments or run incorrect routes, just generally be poor in their execution.

This did rely on players having a numerical figure for learning though.

Can I just whack other questions/ideas/input about the game here, or would it be tidier to put them somewhere else?

colourmebrad · 03-07-2014, 10:37 AM

IMO, this is a must for realism. It would be particularly important in online leagues. Being 'trade happy' won't work as well if your constant roster churn results in a out-of-sync team who doesn't know your scheme.

Rumplebeanskin · 03-07-2014, 10:49 AM

It's not just new players either, but it impacts the employment of new assistant coaches and also your decision to change how you play season on season.

If you decide to change one off season from a power run game to a vertical passing offence, all your offensive players will take time to adjust as it will be new to all of them.

As for assistant coaches, the same applied. You need to make sure you have continuity in philosophy from coach to coach, not just hiring the best available.

goalieump413 · 03-07-2014, 11:44 AM

Playbook knowledge and coaching scheme did play a large role in HC09, and implementing this degree of realism for BTS would be welcome. I'm not sure, but I think we'll have to wait until v2 though.

But I'll add this perspective: Playbooks, and how well players understand the system, plays a huge factor in an organization's evaluation of talent growth. Players might get drafted for pure athletic ability, but in some cases, either incoming draftees or free agents, are considered to have a better chance to have an immediate impact if those players have played within a compatible system before. A shorter learning curve can come from a higher "football IQ" as well, so that should not be discounted.

And I agree that online leagues suffer from a mess of unrealistic trades if playbook/system knowledge is not part of the simulation.

Francis Cole · 03-07-2014, 01:19 PM

I think this was answered somewhere else, but due to time constraints (i.e. how long it will take to do it properly) for the first version there will only be one playbook, and every team will have the same terminology, so this wont' be in V1. Sorry for any disappointment

olivertheorem · 03-07-2014, 10:03 PM

I would imagine it would be tedious to code, but if you already have an intelligence-ish attribute planned, could you have it influence the player's rate of making assignment mistakes and go down until X games have been played for a given team? Just thinking out loud.

Cryomaniac · 03-08-2014, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

I would imagine it would be tedious to code, but if you already have an intelligence-ish attribute planned, could you have it influence the player's rate of making assignment mistakes and go down until X games have been played for a given team? Just thinking out loud.

That would make a lot of sense.

Rumplebeanskin · 03-10-2014, 12:40 PM

Can anyone let me know the level of feedback that may be available from assistant coaches and other members of staff?

For me what makes a simulation game great is the variation in play from team to team, situation to situation. If I go and coach Dallas, will I be very restricted by the freedom given to me by Jerry Jones? And if I take over a struggling team, will I get the opportunity to have a lot more control to do what I want from the owners?

Will my coaches give me their opinions on players that they see in practice? Resign potential, training level, potential training focus, or will it very much feel like it's a one man band and I'm doing everything myself?

Sorry, kinda 2 questions rolled into one!

Francis Cole · 03-10-2014, 01:34 PM

Probably no for the first one for V1.
For the second question you are certainly going to have to rely on your staff.

Rumplebeanskin · 03-11-2014, 05:34 AM

Thanks for the speedy response Francis! I'm encouraged by the answer as well. It always feels so unrealistic in simulation games when you're undertaking roles that just wouldn't be your responsibility. I understand people like to do everything though, each to their own!

Valdarix · 03-11-2014, 12:14 PM

For future versions of the game will we see game plans and opponent scouting?

goalieump413 · 03-11-2014, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarix

For future versions of the game will we see game plans and opponent scouting?

I'm sure game planning and scouting will eventually surface, and I'm eagerly anticipating it, but I'd be happy if v1 bypassed these features for now.

Game plans for a week's opponent roll into playbook knowledge quite nicely, as mastering some feature plays for a certain opponent are typical in the real game. Even though HC09 had these features, there was still room for improvement.

Cole · 03-13-2014, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumplebeanskin

Can I just whack other questions/ideas/input about the game here, or would it be tidier to put them somewhere else?

Throwing questions about the game into the Q & A thread would probably make sense.

ConStar · 03-26-2014, 08:19 PM

Playbook variance is not such a big deal in the pros; although you have the West Coast, the Erhardt-Perkins, the Coryell, the traditional I-formation, etc., the devil is in the details. There are very few teams that are truly "out there" in comparison to the competition. It's mostly about talent, execution and playcalling acumen.

But when you guys decide to turn out the college game, that's when this is going to get choppy. You have all the NFL offenses, plus the spread-option, flex-option, flexbone, wishbone, triple option, HUNH, run-and-shoot, pure spread, single wing, double wing, wing-T, and if you're going for the historical as well, the Notre Dame box plus a couple of others. Moreover, the amount of crossover between a college team running an Erhardt-Perkins derivative (i.e., Alabama) and a team running the Rodriguez/Meyer spread-option (i.e., Ohio State) is virtually nil. Then you have to account for wildcat packages, etc.

Just get ready, the college game is going to seriously keep you guys up at night.

goalieump413 · 03-27-2014, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConStar

...Just get ready, the college game is going to seriously keep you guys up at night.

Oh, I'm ready.

03-07-2014, 09:44 AM	#1
Rumplebeanskin Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 47	Play Book Knowledge? And no doubt other questions! Will there be a period of time in the game that will need to pass before a player that is new to your team understands the concepts of your play book? It was always a realistic feature in the NFL Head Coach days on consoles, I felt anyway. If you went out and signed a free agent, it would take a number of weeks before you could open up your entire play book for them, as more often than not, the player in question wouldn't have enough knowledge to run so many brand new plays successfully straight away. They would often miss blocking assignments or run incorrect routes, just generally be poor in their execution. This did rely on players having a numerical figure for learning though. Can I just whack other questions/ideas/input about the game here, or would it be tidier to put them somewhere else?

03-07-2014, 10:49 AM	#3
Rumplebeanskin Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 47	It's not just new players either, but it impacts the employment of new assistant coaches and also your decision to change how you play season on season. If you decide to change one off season from a power run game to a vertical passing offence, all your offensive players will take time to adjust as it will be new to all of them. As for assistant coaches, the same applied. You need to make sure you have continuity in philosophy from coach to coach, not just hiring the best available. Last edited by Rumplebeanskin; 03-07-2014 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Typo

03-07-2014, 01:19 PM	#5
Francis Cole Lead Developer for BTS Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 854	I think this was answered somewhere else, but due to time constraints (i.e. how long it will take to do it properly) for the first version there will only be one playbook, and every team will have the same terminology, so this wont' be in V1. Sorry for any disappointment Last edited by Francis Cole; 03-07-2014 at 01:25 PM.

03-07-2014, 10:37 AM	#2
colourmebrad Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 107	IMO, this is a must for realism. It would be particularly important in online leagues. Being 'trade happy' won't work as well if your constant roster churn results in a out-of-sync team who doesn't know your scheme.

03-07-2014, 11:44 AM	#4
goalieump413 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 765	Playbook knowledge and coaching scheme did play a large role in HC09, and implementing this degree of realism for BTS would be welcome. I'm not sure, but I think we'll have to wait until v2 though. But I'll add this perspective: Playbooks, and how well players understand the system, plays a huge factor in an organization's evaluation of talent growth. Players might get drafted for pure athletic ability, but in some cases, either incoming draftees or free agents, are considered to have a better chance to have an immediate impact if those players have played within a compatible system before. A shorter learning curve can come from a higher "football IQ" as well, so that should not be discounted. And I agree that online leagues suffer from a mess of unrealistic trades if playbook/system knowledge is not part of the simulation.

03-07-2014, 10:03 PM	#6
olivertheorem All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,919	I would imagine it would be tedious to code, but if you already have an intelligence-ish attribute planned, could you have it influence the player's rate of making assignment mistakes and go down until X games have been played for a given team? Just thinking out loud.

03-10-2014, 12:40 PM	#8
Rumplebeanskin Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 47	Can anyone let me know the level of feedback that may be available from assistant coaches and other members of staff? For me what makes a simulation game great is the variation in play from team to team, situation to situation. If I go and coach Dallas, will I be very restricted by the freedom given to me by Jerry Jones? And if I take over a struggling team, will I get the opportunity to have a lot more control to do what I want from the owners? Will my coaches give me their opinions on players that they see in practice? Resign potential, training level, potential training focus, or will it very much feel like it's a one man band and I'm doing everything myself? Sorry, kinda 2 questions rolled into one!

03-10-2014, 01:34 PM	#9
Francis Cole Lead Developer for BTS Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 854	Probably no for the first one for V1. For the second question you are certainly going to have to rely on your staff.

03-11-2014, 05:34 AM	#10
Rumplebeanskin Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 47	Thanks for the speedy response Francis! I'm encouraged by the answer as well. It always feels so unrealistic in simulation games when you're undertaking roles that just wouldn't be your responsibility. I understand people like to do everything though, each to their own!

03-11-2014, 12:14 PM	#11
Valdarix Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3	For future versions of the game will we see game plans and opponent scouting?

03-26-2014, 08:19 PM	#14
ConStar Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 205	Playbook variance is not such a big deal in the pros; although you have the West Coast, the Erhardt-Perkins, the Coryell, the traditional I-formation, etc., the devil is in the details. There are very few teams that are truly "out there" in comparison to the competition. It's mostly about talent, execution and playcalling acumen. But when you guys decide to turn out the college game, that's when this is going to get choppy. You have all the NFL offenses, plus the spread-option, flex-option, flexbone, wishbone, triple option, HUNH, run-and-shoot, pure spread, single wing, double wing, wing-T, and if you're going for the historical as well, the Notre Dame box plus a couple of others. Moreover, the amount of crossover between a college team running an Erhardt-Perkins derivative (i.e., Alabama) and a team running the Rodriguez/Meyer spread-option (i.e., Ohio State) is virtually nil. Then you have to account for wildcat packages, etc. Just get ready, the college game is going to seriously keep you guys up at night.