What's your take?

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Carlton

In a case of the former
Baker Bowl (Huntingdon Street Baseball Grounds)usually gives a great HR to LHers but...there was a 60ft wall, which increased LH Batting average and doubles, but killed triples and dimished HRs even if it was only 272ft

It was RHers who benefitted from Baker Bowl with the low wall and 340 ft LF

I used to use Baker Bowl for my ABF before i switched to Wrigley. I had a 10 power RH who had 72 HR Ruth had 68. Average staff ERA was 4.08 lg average was 3.34. I still had 3 20 game winners. I had a lefty 1B who was a clone of Pujols had him dead pull he also would hit 50 each year. Baines hit 39 in 2002. i love that park for OOTP but if the pitching is average to bad you get killed. Avg score seems like it would be 8-5 type of thing.

[Carlton]

Sounds like the PF were right in that case

Gavvy Cravath a RH hitter, hit his record 24 Hrs all at home
Yet LHers like Cy Williams and Fred Luderus also hit HRs just not as easily.

The HR Park factors should be over 1.100 but when I import in 1901, it has LH HR Power as around 1.400 and RH as 1.200 when it is imported when it should be the opposite

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by The Game

Dont know what to say, mine is not a whole lot different. RL Cubs have not had a 30 HR guy since Billy Williams. Pena would have done it had he not missed so many games. He had 28. I have a 10 power guy who has 29 August 1st.
I use Wrigley for 2 other fictional leagues and only had Babe Ruth hit more then 30 in Wrigley. He had 31 the same age he hit 60 IRL. Wind tends to blow to LF not RF. OOTP does a good job of having this be true to RL.

I use the factors from Pstrickets set. I use 2012.

The problem is Wrigley's centerfield is not dead center. That's why it is a bit tougher on lefties.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

The problem is Wrigley's centerfield is not dead center. That's why it is a bit tougher on lefties.

I'd guess that the difference is minimal - about four or five feet difference between hitting a ball over the wall in left-center and hitting a ball over the wall in right-center. The power alleys in both fields are marked at 368 feet. The bigger difference is that, when the wind is blowing in, it's blowing in from right field. That hurts lefties more than righties. When the wind is blowing out, it blows out toward center field. That helps everybody (except the pitchers).

[rpriske]

I just try to remember that good pitching will always beat good hitting, and vice versa.

[BIG17EASY]

I think the term "hitter's ballpark" is too closely associated with home runs in most people's eyes. In actuality, things like the amount of foul territory play just as big of a role as the depth of the outfield walls.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I think the term "hitter's ballpark" is too closely associated with home runs in most people's eyes. In actuality, things like the amount of foul territory play just as big of a role as the depth of the outfield walls.

That's an important point. Wrigley Field is a hitter's park as much because it has very little foul territory as because of its outfield dimensions. The Oakland Coliseum has outfield dimensions that aren't that much different from Wrigley's but it has, by comparison, an enormous amount of foul territory, and Oakland has the reputation as a pitcher's park. About the only thing that saved the Baker Bowl from being a complete travesty was the fact that it had a huge foul area down the lines.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I just try to remember that good pitching will always beat good hitting, and vice versa.

bad pitching will never beat bad hitting?

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I'd guess that the difference is minimal - about four or five feet difference between hitting a ball over the wall in left-center and hitting a ball over the wall in right-center. The power alleys in both fields are marked at 368 feet. The bigger difference is that, when the wind is blowing in, it's blowing in from right field. That hurts lefties more than righties. When the wind is blowing out, it blows out toward center field. That helps everybody (except the pitchers).

It's more than minimal. Yes both fields are marked at 368 but they are not marked in symmetrical places. The 368 in left field is much closer to dead center than it's counter part in right, which is closer to the foul line. Meaning to hit out as a righty pull hitter you'd never have to hit the ball farther than about 380 to clear the fence at it's deepest point. The power ally is quite a bit deeper in center field and right center for a lefty pull hitter.

The wind is also a big factor, but the dimensions certainly play a role.


Here is a better view:

[farmkidD2]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I just try to remember that good pitching will always beat good hitting, and vice versa.

Isn't that a Yogi Berra quote?

[farmkidD2]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

It's more than minimal. Yes both fields are marked at 368 but they are not marked in symmetrical places. The 368 in left field is much closer to dead center than it's counter part in right, which is closer to the foul line. Meaning to hit out as a righty pull hitter you'd never have to hit the ball farther than about 380 to clear the fence at it's deepest point. The power ally is quite a bit deeper in center field and right center for a lefty pull hitter.

The wind is also a big factor, but the dimensions certainly play a role.


Here is a better view:

I've been to so many games at Wrigley, I still cannot believe that I never noticed this before. Like most people who have been there enough games, I forgot about the support columns when I bought tickets once and my view to home was blocked the whole game. You'd think I'd spend more time looking at the outfield and notice things like this.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

It's more than minimal. Yes both fields are marked at 368 but they are not marked in symmetrical places. The 368 in left field is much closer to dead center than it's counter part in right, which is closer to the foul line. Meaning to hit out as a righty pull hitter you'd never have to hit the ball farther than about 380 to clear the fence at it's deepest point. The power ally is quite a bit deeper in center field and right center for a lefty pull hitter.

What you're saying is that lefties lose a bunch of home runs in the 380-400 foot "well" in deep center-right field. But most home runs aren't hit in that area anyway, regardless of what park you're talking about. I'd imagine that maybe a dozen balls per year fall into that area that would have been home runs if they had instead been hit in deep center-left field. And even if it's more than that - say it's fifty a year instead of a dozen - that gets averaged out over thousands of at-bats. It's really not a big factor.

The Cubs haven't had a lefty hit over 30 HRs in a year since 1998 because the Cubs are uniquely terrible at obtaining and retaining talented players. The top HR hitters in 2013 were lefties - Nate Schierhotlz and Anthony Rizzo - both players with limited skills and doubtful futures. It's not the park, it's the team.

[EvilGenius]

This may very well be a difference between real life and a computer simulation.

In real life, favoring pitching in a hitter-friendly park causes the pitchers to develop bad habits as they're desperate not to give up home runs. It can get into the pitcher's head. It messes up their mechanics. Those bad habits carry into away games in other parks. For example, when Mike Hampton was with Colorado, he was worse away than at home (Mike Hampton's 2002 splits). Clearly, getting knocked around at home did something to his mechanics that stayed with him as he traveled. The visiting pitcher though, being that he only has to pitch there once or twice a season, don't have those psychological hangups affecting his mechanics -- he just pitches his game.

A computer simulation probably won't simulate this. The pitcher will probably be bad in a hitter friendly park, but not as bad as the opposing pitcher -- the strategy the OP was going for. And the poor results aren't as likely to carry into away games like they do in the real world. So this very well may be a viable strategy in an OOTP setting, but not for MLB.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

What you're saying is that lefties lose a bunch of home runs in the 380-400 foot "well" in deep center-right field. But most home runs aren't hit in that area anyway, regardless of what park you're talking about. I'd imagine that maybe a dozen balls per year fall into that area that would have been home runs if they had instead been hit in deep center-left field. And even if it's more than that - say it's fifty a year instead of a dozen - that gets averaged out over thousands of at-bats. It's really not a big factor.

The Cubs haven't had a lefty hit over 30 HRs in a year since 1998 because the Cubs are uniquely terrible at obtaining and retaining talented players. The top HR hitters in 2013 were lefties - Nate Schierhotlz and Anthony Rizzo - both players with limited skills and doubtful futures. It's not the park, it's the team.

What I'm saying is it is significantly harder to hit homeruns as a lefty than a righty at Wrigley, which is true. Nothing more or nothing less. Yes lefties will lose more homeruns than righties in the park because the walls are deeper. Not just in the deeper center well but in the power ally as well. The power ally in left field and left-center is very short. That is why righty power hitters typically have more success than lefties there. And of course there are other factors as well, such as wind and talent.

That doesn't mean it's impossible for a lefty to come along and hit 40 or 50 homeruns with the proper talent. All I'm saying is there are reasons that righty sluggers have had more success than their lefty counter parts and the deeper dimensions the lefties have to face certainly do not help them.

[The Game]

Somehow I missed Oh! Henry when I was looking who was the last leftie to hit 30 HR in Wrigley. I had gone year to year a while back starting with Billy Williams, thanx for correcting me. Cubs dont pursue power hitting lefties because they will not have as much success there. Wind blows in until about late May and again in September. Blows out to LCF - LF late may - early SEP. Rodriguez hit 16 of his 31 HR at home, if that means anything. Sosa hit half of his 66 at home.

[DelinoDeShields]

Echoing Farmkid -- watched thousands of Wrigley games and never noticed the quirk of Wrigley Field. Awesome analysis. Thank you, Ihatenames.

General to the thread: Load up on ground ball pitchers and make your entire infield Manny Lee clones.

[DelinoDeShields]

"Oh Henry!" Rodriguez. I remember that dude. I wonder what he's up to now. Great prospect, Montreal to LA to Chicago.

Man remember when the Cubs had Luis Gonzalez one year? Why didn't they keep him!

Because LF for the Cubs has been cursed since George Bell.

At least they got rid of Soriano.