Base running question.

David Watts · 01-25-2014, 03:10 PM

I just had a situation in which with runners on 1st and 2nd a team attempted a double steal. The runner was safe at 3rd, but the trailing runner was thrown out at 2nd. For the life of me, I can't remember seeing this happen in a game. Probably just my poor memory skills. I guess if the trail runner was the slower of the 2 or got a bad jump, but it still seems like the throw would be made to 3rd. Thoughts?

pstrickert · 01-25-2014, 03:28 PM

I've definitely seen the C throw to 2B (IRL) to get the slower runner. Do you happen to remember if the runner going to 2B was significantly slower?

David Watts · 01-25-2014, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I've definitely seen the C throw to 2B (IRL) to get the slower runner. Do you happen to remember if the runner going to 2B was significantly slower?

Yeah, that was it. The guy that was caught was actually a catcher with only 28 speed. Meanwhile, the other runner was rated 64. 1911 so teams are running willy nilly, or maybe that running Wee Willy Keeler.

JohnHoward · 01-25-2014, 05:05 PM

My evidence is anecdotal but I can tell you from watching over a thousand Braves games over the years that Bobby Cox liked this play and the Braves catcher would almost always throw to second on the first and second double steal. The Braves also had a cut-off play where the catcher would throw to the pitcher.

David Watts · 01-25-2014, 05:27 PM

Major brain fart on my part. I still can't remember seeing it, but my memory for certain things stinks. Thanks for the replies.

BIG17EASY · 01-25-2014, 05:40 PM

Yes, most teams at all levels have a sign for the defense letting everyone on the field know that if there's a double steal, the catcher will throw to second instead of third.

joefromchicago · 01-25-2014, 09:44 PM

The bigger question is: did the lead runner get credit for a stolen base?

MarkVIIIMarc · 01-25-2014, 09:59 PM

I had a SLOW runner picked off at 2nd on the tail end of a double steel in my modern era league this year.

farmkidD2 · 01-25-2014, 11:52 PM

When I first read this, I thought you meant they threw to third(safe), and then to second to get the out. That would have been a very slow runner.

EvilGenius · 01-27-2014, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

The bigger question is: did the lead runner get credit for a stolen base?

He shouldn't. I don't steal bases anymore, but in earlier versions this did work correctly where both runners have to be safe to be credited for a stolen base.

JMDurron · 01-27-2014, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

The bigger question is: did the lead runner get credit for a stolen base?

No, the runner that is safe gets no credit for a stolen base in this scenario. I can confirm this has been recorded correctly in OOTP14.

RchW · 01-27-2014, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDurron

No, the runner that is safe gets no credit for a stolen base in this scenario. I can confirm this has been recorded correctly in OOTP14.

I learned something new today. Probably should have known this.

joefromchicago · 01-27-2014, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDurron

No, the runner that is safe gets no credit for a stolen base in this scenario. I can confirm this has been recorded correctly in OOTP14.

Thanks. I don't recall ever seeing a double steal attempt, so I didn't know if OOTP scored this play correctly.

JMDurron · 01-27-2014, 04:16 PM

I'm an aggressive baserunner, when I have the personnel to justify it. I faced a bad pitcher-catcher combo once in my historical league and had 3 successful double steals by the same two players in the same game.

DelinoDeShields · 01-27-2014, 05:07 PM

Haha nice. That is keen managing JMDurron. There's something so playful and gung-ho about double steals. You see it a lot in little league -- probably because errors are constant so the percentages are higher.

I remember my little league coach training us for a trick play. When there were runners on 1st and 3rd, the guy at 1st always took off, and inevitably teams would throw to 2nd base and the guy at 3rd would sneak home a run. Instead, we had our shortstop rush in toward the pitcher's mound, and the catcher would throw to him, and he would throw right back to the catcher to nab the guy at home. Worked everytime.

BIG17EASY · 01-27-2014, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelinoDeShields

I remember my little league coach training us for a trick play. When there were runners on 1st and 3rd, the guy at 1st always took off, and inevitably teams would throw to 2nd base and the guy at 3rd would sneak home a run. Instead, we had our shortstop rush in toward the pitcher's mound, and the catcher would throw to him, and he would throw right back to the catcher to nab the guy at home. Worked everytime.

This has become a prevalent play at the college level, although offenses are much more savvy about it, which means defenses have to be much better (and much more versatile) at defending it.

01-25-2014, 03:10 PM	#1
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,942 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Base running question. I just had a situation in which with runners on 1st and 2nd a team attempted a double steal. The runner was safe at 3rd, but the trailing runner was thrown out at 2nd. For the life of me, I can't remember seeing this happen in a game. Probably just my poor memory skills. I guess if the trail runner was the slower of the 2 or got a bad jump, but it still seems like the throw would be made to 3rd. Thoughts?

01-25-2014, 05:05 PM	#4
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	My evidence is anecdotal but I can tell you from watching over a thousand Braves games over the years that Bobby Cox liked this play and the Braves catcher would almost always throw to second on the first and second double steal. The Braves also had a cut-off play where the catcher would throw to the pitcher. Last edited by JohnHoward; 01-25-2014 at 05:06 PM. Reason: quantity

01-25-2014, 09:44 PM	#7
joefromchicago Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3,712	The bigger question is: did the lead runner get credit for a stolen base? __________________ American-Ethnic (and Canadian) Namesets Historical Minor League Schedules 1870s City/Team Nickname Randomizers "It's Usually Sunny in Philadelphia" weather mod Negro League Schedules

01-25-2014, 03:28 PM	#2
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,458	I've definitely seen the C throw to 2B (IRL) to get the slower runner. Do you happen to remember if the runner going to 2B was significantly slower?

01-25-2014, 05:27 PM	#5
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,942 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Major brain fart on my part. I still can't remember seeing it, but my memory for certain things stinks. Thanks for the replies.

01-25-2014, 05:40 PM	#6
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	Yes, most teams at all levels have a sign for the defense letting everyone on the field know that if there's a double steal, the catcher will throw to second instead of third.

01-25-2014, 09:59 PM	#8
MarkVIIIMarc Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 35	I had a SLOW runner picked off at 2nd on the tail end of a double steel in my modern era league this year.

01-25-2014, 11:52 PM	#9
farmkidD2 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Concord, CA Posts: 77	When I first read this, I thought you meant they threw to third(safe), and then to second to get the out. That would have been a very slow runner.

01-27-2014, 04:16 PM	#14
JMDurron All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,262	I'm an aggressive baserunner, when I have the personnel to justify it. I faced a bad pitcher-catcher combo once in my historical league and had 3 successful double steals by the same two players in the same game.

01-27-2014, 05:07 PM	#15
DelinoDeShields Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Florida, America. Posts: 54	Haha nice. That is keen managing JMDurron. There's something so playful and gung-ho about double steals. You see it a lot in little league -- probably because errors are constant so the percentages are higher. I remember my little league coach training us for a trick play. When there were runners on 1st and 3rd, the guy at 1st always took off, and inevitably teams would throw to 2nd base and the guy at 3rd would sneak home a run. Instead, we had our shortstop rush in toward the pitcher's mound, and the catcher would throw to him, and he would throw right back to the catcher to nab the guy at home. Worked everytime.