Who had a better season?

[Ike348]

I love the responses guys. Can we all agree that WAR for relievers, especially closers, is pretty much a useless statistic?

And now for Round 2 of this topic. Kenneth Smith vs. Sherman Scott for MVP. Again, since I'm using iOOTP, I can't provide WAR. Since this is the Most Valuable Player award, I won't hesitate to provide team records.

Smith 106-56




Scott 75-87




I was truly shocked at this AI choice.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by Ike348

I love the responses guys. Can we all agree that WAR for relievers, especially closers, is pretty much a useless statistic?

And now for Round 2 of this topic. Kenneth Smith vs. Sherman Scott for MVP. Again, since I'm using iOOTP, I can't provide WAR. Since this is the Most Valuable Player award, I won't hesitate to provide team records.

Smith 106-56
Attachment 322438
Attachment 322441
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Scott 75-87
Attachment 322439
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I was truly shocked at this AI choice.

sorry, will never agree that WAR is useless for anyone, even more for reliever. i will agree Proven Closer are overrated, and many times not the most valuable on the team.


as for the next one. Pretty close. Don't think the team's result is relevant, so i didn't even take notice. At first they appeared pretty equal, so was going to go with the toughest position, but then saw the Defensive contribution (don<t know why you wouldn't lock him in RF btw)...and that hurt Scott...

add the higher number of PA, so higher production, i think i go Smith....

[Ike348]

The only thing Scott has on Smith is home runs and stolen bases. And that's only because my stealing strategy is pretty low.

[JMDurron]

Even a middling defensive CFer is more valuable to me than a good defensive 1B with similar stats. The difference in PAs is likely due to fatigue due to playing a tough defensive position as well, which makes the equivalent HR number more impressive. Also, ignore the AVG for a minute, and focus on OBP and SLG. These are basically offensively equivalent players, only one is a CF and the other is a 1B. I'd go with Scott by a nose.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

Even a middling defensive CFer is more valuable to me than a good defensive 1B with similar stats. The difference in PAs is likely due to fatigue due to playing a tough defensive position as well, which makes the equivalent HR number more impressive. Also, ignore the AVG for a minute, and focus on OBP and SLG. These are basically offensively equivalent players, only one is a CF and the other is a 1B. I'd go with Scott by a nose.

never looked at the AVG... Only OPS+ which gave a slight advantage to Smith.
adding more PA, and Defensive value probably gave him a WAR advantage

and i agree i would usually go CF, i don't know, i guess i actually penalized Scott for his Manager's decision. he should have been in RF all year....

[TribeFanInNC]

Wow, somebody smarter than me has to figure this out. 45 hits is more valuable than 35 walks. Is the difference than that more than the extra runs saved through CF defense and like 20 SBs.

This sounds like a bad FanGraphs article….

[Ike348]

Originally Posted by le receveur

never looked at the AVG... Only OPS+ which gave a slight advantage to Smith.

adding more PA, and Defensive value probably gave him a WAR advantage



and i agree i would usually go CF, i don't know, i guess i actually penalized Scott for his Manager's decision. he should have been in RF all year....

Eh... maybe his team needed a CF. Smith is on my team, and he's also rated for RF, but I put him at 1B because I needed a 1B and I already had a decent RF.

[Ike348]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

Wow, somebody smarter than me has to figure this out. 45 hits is more valuable than 35 walks. Is the difference than that more than the extra runs saved through CF defense and like 20 SBs.



This sounds like a bad FanGraphs article….

Haha not to mention the 80 fewer strikeouts.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by Ike348

Haha not to mention the 80 fewer strikeouts.

An out is an out. As far as the rate at which they make outs go, the difference in OBP is basically irrelevant. A strikeout is actually potentially superior to a groundout in runners-on situations where a GIDP could occur, or when more pitches can help tire out an opposing pitcher.

[The Game]

I would have given the CYY to Sanchez. Smith but is there a 3rd option? I like Smith's doubles & triples #'s especially as a 1B but he doesn't walk. Both had too many K for anyone I would give the MVP to. This is the time when I would look at WAR mainly oWAR since Smith is a 1B the other is a CF. i would also be slightly more inclined to give it to the guy whose team made the playoffs unless that team is stacked.

While in my league only 1 CL has won the NL CYY 1999-2018. 4 CL have won the CBF LS POTY. 2 in the DS 2005-2018. Actually it's 3 different CL who have each won 2. All CPU generated players. No CL have won the POTY in the EBL.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

An out is an out...A strikeout is actually potentially superior to a groundout in runners-on situations where a GIDP could occur, or when more pitches can help tire out an opposing pitcher.

I would think somebody has studied the value of Ks v. other forms of outs and their effect on runs scored. 80 Ks might be enough to show a difference. But this is a pretty advanced topic.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

I would think somebody has studied the value of Ks v. other forms of outs and their effect on runs scored. 80 Ks might be enough to show a difference. But this is a pretty advanced topic.

I know Fangraphs did some stuff on this topic before last season when everyone was freaking out about how many K's the Braves lineup was going to have. I don't remember exactly, but if someone's interested enough to do some digging it's definitely out there somewhere.

[Ike348]

Smith only had 1 more double play than Scott, so of those 80 strikeouts, 79 of them were either productive (RBI groundout) or the same as a strikeout (ex. foulout). Smith also had 8 more sac flies, so his outs were generally more productive than Scott's.

[Ike348]

For those interested, here is Smith's team's lineup. I apologize for having the pitcher bat eighth, but when my team was in a mid-season funk I tried it out and that was when we went on a Dodgers' hot streak.