Reserve clause

[fsclb66]

Im starting a new fictional league and plan on using the reserve clause for the first time. Does anyone have any tips or advice regarding setup or just running a team?

[The Game]

Originally Posted by fsclb66

Im starting a new fictional league and plan on using the reserve clause for the first time. Does anyone have any tips or advice regarding setup or just running a team?

I use what the default for Historical leagues is. 15% pay to cut and only star players for the other 2 options.
Which year are you starting with?

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by fsclb66

Im starting a new fictional league and plan on using the reserve clause for the first time. Does anyone have any tips or advice regarding setup or just running a team?

Well, you know how to set up Reserve Clause Era Rules? It's under Financial Settings in League Setup (see first screen print below). When you click that box, it replaces Free Agency drop-down menus with three others that pertain only to the Reserve Clause. They are:

Remaining Salary owed if Player is cut - None, 10%, 15%, 20%, 50%.
Multi-year Contracts given - None, Only Star Players, Random.
Guaranteed Contracts given - None, Only Star Players, Random.

The online manual does not explain these options in great detail (second screen print), unfortunately. I don't have experience to tell you how they affect the game, either. Frankly, the first option puzzles me; no matter what era, if a ball club releases a player under contract, does it not owe 100% of whatever is left on the contract?

Anyway, that's all I can offer. Perhaps someone with some experience in playing this game under Reserve Clause settings will contribute here.

EDIT: Hey, TG. You posted while I was still educating myself. Thanks, and maybe you can answer my own question? Why would a ball club owe only 15% of a contract for a player that it releases?

[The Game]

I believe the player is only owed the % that you set for that year. Most of my reserve clause era league are pre 1920 right now. Last time I cut a player I paid him $120 that was in 1915.

[fsclb66]

Im planning on starting in 1900 with historical financials and modern day strategy and player creation modifiers but this is the first time ive ever used the reserve clause so I was just wondering if there were any additional things I should know before I get started creating everything. One thing I've wondered is how are player contracts decided in the offseason? Do they jusy get new ones every year based off their ratings or performance or is there anything I have to do
Myself as gm to resign guys or give extensions?

[The Game]

Originally Posted by fsclb66

Im planning on starting in 1900 with historical financials and modern day strategy and player creation modifiers but this is the first time ive ever used the reserve clause so I was just wondering if there were any additional things I should know before I get started creating everything. One thing I've wondered is how are player contracts decided in the offseason? Do they jusy get new ones every year based off their ratings or performance or is there anything I have to do
Myself as gm to resign guys or give extensions?

From what I have seen they are all automatically renewed, you do not have to do anything. I do not not know what factors determine their new contracts.
In the financial & strategy screen just select 1900 and it will be good to go. You can also automatically have finances and strategy advance each season. Those should be under Options. When you 1st create your league go to advanced option when you get the the league structure screen. You can also do this after league creation.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Why would a ball club owe only 15% of a contract for a player that it releases?

Because the contracts were not guaranteed. In real life, for a long time, a club could release a player and the only thing it owed him was 10 days' pay and a ticket back to his home town. (If released during the off-season or spring training, the club owed the player nothing at all.) Only about 5% of contracts during the reserve clause era had this ten-day clause stricken out, which converted the contract into a guaranteed one.

In late 1946 the termination pay was raised to 30 days. In 1970, for the first time, players received termination pay when released during spring training (30 days), while for the regular season it was raised to 60 days. In 1972 the termination pay was changed to 60 days if released prior to May 15th (roughly one-quarter of the way through the regular season) and the full year's pay if released on or after that date. In 1976 a player released at any point during the regular season got the remaining amount of the contract for that year.

I'm not sure when termination pay for off-season releases began, but by 1990 players released during the off-season or first half of spring training received 30 days' pay; if released during the second half of spring training, 45 days' pay; and the remaining amount of the contract for the year if released during the regular season. (Note that this applied to players still under the reserve clause, i.e. those with less than six years of major league service. Players signed as free agents usually received guaranteed contracts.)

If you compare the termination pay lengths to the lengths of the regular season, it works out roughly like this: 10 days, 6%; 30 days, 17%; 45 days, 25%; 60 days, 33%.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by The Game

I believe the player is only owed the % that you set for that year. Most of my reserve clause era league are pre 1920 right now. Last time I cut a player I paid him $120 that was in 1915.

I gave you a "thanks for trying," TG but this was the authoritative answer:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Because the contracts were not guaranteed. In real life, for a long time, a club could release a player and the only thing it owed him was 10 days' pay and a ticket back to his home town. (If released during the off-season or spring training, the club owed the player nothing at all.) Only about 5% of contracts during the reserve clause era had this ten-day clause stricken out, which converted the contract into a guaranteed one.

In late 1946 the termination pay was raised to 30 days. In 1970, for the first time, players received termination pay when released during spring training (30 days), while for the regular season it was raised to 60 days. In 1972 the termination pay was changed to 60 days if released prior to May 15th (roughly one-quarter of the way through the regular season) and the full year's pay if released on or after that date. In 1976 a player released at any point during the regular season got the remaining amount of the contract for that year.

I'm not sure when termination pay for off-season releases began, but by 1990 players released during the off-season or first half of spring training received 30 days' pay; if released during the second half of spring training, 45 days' pay; and the remaining amount of the contract for the year if released during the regular season. (Note that this applied to players still under the reserve clause, i.e. those with less than six years of major league service. Players signed as free agents usually received guaranteed contracts.)

If you compare the termination pay lengths to the lengths of the regular season, it works out roughly like this: 10 days, 6%; 30 days, 17%; 45 days, 25%; 60 days, 33%.

Excellent answer, LGO and thank you very much. Which also explains the third Reserve Clause era option: Guaranteed Contracts given - None, Only Star Players, Random. Something new can be learned every day about this game and Baseball itself, it seems.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I gave you a "thanks for trying," TG but this was the authoritative answer:

Excellent answer, LGO and thank you very much. Which also explains the third Reserve Clause era option: Guaranteed Contracts given - None, Only Star Players, Random. Something new can be learned every day about this game and Baseball itself, it seems.

No one knows more about finances then LGO.

[Carlton]

The Reserve Clause needs to be fixed in the new version

If a multi year contract is given, say to Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio, both are paid the same salary...the super star one with little deviation, if it's $80,000, you have 5 players paid at $80,000 even though one may be on a smaller market team.

Also, if you take over a team with the Commish tool, you can't offer a contract or extension with reserve clause to a player.

I had Red Durrent become a HR superstar in my league and wanted to extend him with the Pirates. I had to use the editor

If I am doing something wrong, please let me know...but I use non reserve clause with 10 years until FA, no arbitration and 6 years minor league Free Agency to emulate a more reserve clause feel to the game.

Also, keep in mind if you leave the international FA's at default, even though it is grayed out,you WILL have 3 or 4 Older International FA's hit the league every offseason

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Carlton

Also, if you take over a team with the Commish tool, you can't offer a contract or extension with reserve clause to a player.

I tend to play in Commish mode. Can you offer them extensions when not in Commish mode? I always wondered why I could not offer players extensions, figured it was that way by design.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Carlton

The Reserve Clause needs to be fixed in the new version

If a multi year contract is given, say to Ted Williams and Joe Dimaggio, both are paid the same salary...the super star one with little deviation, if it's $80,000, you have 5 players paid at $80,000 even though one may be on a smaller market team.

Why are they paid the same salary? Is $80k the league average for superstar players? There's really no reason why they must have the same salary.

Originally Posted by Carlton

Also, if you take over a team with the Commish tool, you can't offer a contract or extension with reserve clause to a player.

Why would you offer an extension to a player who is under the reserve clause? The reserve clause guarantees that the player will stay on your team until you trade or release him or until he retires. His contract is automatically extended at the end of every season.

Originally Posted by Carlton

If I am doing something wrong, please let me know...but I use non reserve clause with 10 years until FA, no arbitration and 6 years minor league Free Agency to emulate a more reserve clause feel to the game.

I don't understand this. If you want to emulate the reserve clause, why not just enable the reserve clause rules?

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Why are they paid the same salary? Is $80k the league average for superstar players? There's really no reason why they must have the same salary.

That's what happened. In the 1940's in my league, I set the highest tiered salary as $80,000 and the 5 players I mentioned were all making it.

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Why would you offer an extension to a player who is under the reserve clause? The reserve clause guarantees that the player will stay on your team until you trade or release him or until he retires. His contract is automatically extended at the end of every season.

I can't help but want certain players on certain teams, so no trade clause.
Plus I needed to fix that all superstars made 80k. ...

Even with reserve clause you can select 'guaranteed contracts' so even though a C may not be a superstar, maybe he gets a 3 yr deal. What happens with No salary paid upon cut and no guaranteed contracts, is even more turnover than really happened back then.

There were extensions granted to the few back then

and like I stated, Reserve Clause rules are vanilla and do not reflect any semblence of diversity and real financials at all. Like I stated, Joe Schmoe could play for 12 years but will have 0 in his history about being signed to this team or his salary

You are free to start a league, sim 10 years and see. It was added in as an afterthought, because current baseball comes first for sales purposes, I understand that...however, this should be looked into.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Carlton

That's what happened. In the 1940's in my league, I set the highest tiered salary as $80,000 and the 5 players I mentioned were all making it.

That's a function of the average salary figures in the financial settings. Usually, those fluctuate around the average. In my experience, it's unusual for salaries to settle on the same point, but I suppose it's not unheard of. I'm not sure what you can do to change that, but then I don't know why it's such a big deal.

Originally Posted by Carlton

I can't help but want certain players on certain teams, so no trade clause.

You can restrict trading under the reserve clause rules, too.

Originally Posted by Carlton

Even with reserve clause you can select 'guaranteed contracts' so even though a C may not be a superstar, maybe he gets a 3 yr deal. What happens with No salary paid upon cut and no guaranteed contracts, is even more turnover than really happened back then.

Again, that hasn't been my experience.

Originally Posted by Carlton

There were extensions granted to the few back then

Depends on what you mean by "extension." As I see it, an extension is adding more years to an existing contract. A contract with a reserve clause, however, already has those years added on -- it's an open-ended term. What you're talking about is when a team actually gave a player a guaranteed contract for a set term of years. That's different. If I have Ty Cobb under reserve and, after a series of one-year automatic renewals, I decide to give him a five-year guaranteed contract, that's not an extension, that's a new contract.

Originally Posted by Carlton

and like I stated, Reserve Clause rules are vanilla and do not reflect any semblence of diversity and real financials at all. Like I stated, Joe Schmoe could play for 12 years but will have 0 in his history about being signed to this team or his salary

What?

Originally Posted by Carlton

You are free to start a league, sim 10 years and see. It was added in as an afterthought, because current baseball comes first for sales purposes, I understand that...however, this should be looked into.

I agree that the game is designed for modern play, but I think OOTP actually does a good job with the reserve clause rules.

[David Watts]

What were the options available to a player back then if he was unwilling to sign a new contract? Did he simply sit out the season?

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by David Watts

What were the options available to a player back then if he was unwilling to sign a new contract? Did he simply sit out the season?

Yep, that was about the only leverage that a player could exert in contract negotiations, since he couldn't shop his services around to any other team. Some players had epic battles with owners, like Edd Roush, who always seemed to be dissatisfied and actually sat out all of 1930 in a contract dispute. Same with Amos Rusie, who was a holdout for all of 1896. Some players also were known to hold out because they didn't like spring training. Players like Ty Cobb and Ernie Lombardi were notorious for signing their contracts only after the team broke camp and headed north for the season opener.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Yep, that was about the only leverage that a player could exert in contract negotiations, since he couldn't shop his services around to any other team. Some players had epic battles with owners, like Edd Roush, who always seemed to be dissatisfied and actually sat out all of 1930 in a contract dispute. Same with Amos Rusie, who was a holdout for all of 1896. Some players also were known to hold out because they didn't like spring training. Players like Ty Cobb and Ernie Lombardi were notorious for signing their contracts only after the team broke camp and headed north for the season opener.

Thanks. Part of me thinks it would be cool if OOTP could replicate some of the above, but another part imagines not liking it too much if all of a sudden Ty Cobb is sitting out the 1912 season in a dispute over money. For me, the reserve clause allows me to have finances on, but not have to deal with all the team jumping that is a part of free agency. For me trades set to low provides just the right amount of player movement.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Yep, that was about the only leverage that a player could exert in contract negotiations, since he couldn't shop his services around to any other team. Some players had epic battles with owners, like Edd Roush, who always seemed to be dissatisfied and actually sat out all of 1930 in a contract dispute. Same with Amos Rusie, who was a holdout for all of 1896. Some players also were known to hold out because they didn't like spring training. Players like Ty Cobb and Ernie Lombardi were notorious for signing their contracts only after the team broke camp and headed north for the season opener.

Just to follow this up, the public pressure was against players holding out, so there are only a very small number of instances of players holding out for thirty days or more.

Below is a chart of hold outs lasting thirty days or more between 1905 to 1972. I forget where I got it from, but it was, as best I recall, from a printed reference source. Any year not in the list is a year in which there were no hold outs of thirty days or more.

Number of long-term player hold outs

       30+  Entire 
      days  season
------------------
1905    1     0
1906    2     2
1907    2     0
1909    2     1
1910    0     1
1913    0     1
1915    0     1
1916    0     1
1918    2     0
1920    0     1
1921    1     0
1922    4     0
1924    1     0
1927    1     0
1928    1     0
1929    1     0
1930    2     0
1937    1     0
1943    1     0
1945    0     1
1950    1     0
1970    0     1
1971    0     1
1972    1     0

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Thanks. Part of me thinks it would be cool if OOTP could replicate some of the above, but another part imagines not liking it too much if all of a sudden Ty Cobb is sitting out the 1912 season in a dispute over money. For me, the reserve clause allows me to have finances on, but not have to deal with all the team jumping that is a part of free agency. For me trades set to low provides just the right amount of player movement.

I think it would be great if OOTP could incorporate holdouts in its reserve clause system. That is one of the two big flaws in the reserve clause rules (the other is automatically basing pay on the previous year's performance).

Making it work, however, might be tricky. OOTP already knows how to make a player reject an owner's offer - players do that all the time under free agency. The problem, though, is how to handle a player who actually holds out for part or all of the regular season. In real life, the team would carry that player on its reserve list, but he wouldn't count against any limits. OOTP, on the other hand, doesn't have any option like that. Either the player is on the 40-man roster or he likely has to be waived or released (only star players had the kind of leverage to hold out). OOTP would have to create a "reserved-but-not-counted-against-roster-limits" list for holdouts, which might be both difficult to program and not considered a good use of programming resources, considering how infrequently the situation might pop up.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Below is a chart of hold outs lasting thirty days or more between 1905 to 1972.

It's odd that your list doesn't show any year-long holdouts for 1930. Everything I've read about Edd Roush says that he held out for all of the 1930 season.

SABR Bio Project:

In July of 1928 Edd was sent to St. Louis for an operation at St. John's hospital to repair torn stomach muscles. He sat out the entire 1930 season in another salary dispute, then returned to the Reds for one final season in 1931.

eddroush.com:

Aside from his impressive skills on the baseball field, Roush was known as a shrewd negotiator. He never went to play for a team without making sure he was getting what he deserved and sat out the entire 1930 season over a salary dispute. He had pride in himself and his sport and was known for his aggressiveness.