How Does OOTP Determine Type A and Type B FAs?

[hefalumps]

Does anyone know? I know Elias used a "secret" formula and some details had been divulged, but I didn't know if OOTP had all the details or had its own formula.

The reason I ask - in the league I'm playing, something happened and all of my free agents lost their "type" in the middle of the offseason. Fortunately I had a backup so I was able to retrieve their types from the backup and manually edit each Type A/B free agent back to their right type. But if it for some reason happens again... or the free agents in next year's class don't get typed properly... I'd like to be able to correct it manually.

On a related note, does anyone know at what point in the season OOTP "types" the Free Agents? Right now I'm in June, and if I go to the "Upcoming Free Agents", there are players there with types that I didn't manually restore, so they got "typed" at some point after that. But there's some that I feel *shouldn't* be Type A/B based on their recent stats and some that I feel *should* but aren't - I was wondering if they'll get "re-typed" at season's end.

So any clarity anyone can provide to this process would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[hefalumps]

I found this link from Baseball Prospectus that shed some light on the real world process.

So I'm guessing OOTP has its own formula, but maybe it uses the same real-life guidelines such as ranking by position, using the last two years of stats, and having the top 20% be Type A and the next 20% be Type B. Does anyone know for sure?

[hefalumps]

Found this too from mlbtraderumors - again, good insight into real life process, but still curious if this is what OOTP does.

[RchW]

Do you have the 2012 CBA enabled in game?

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by RchW

Do you have the 2012 CBA enabled in game?

No I have the 2012 CBA disabled. I'm doing a historical league starting in the 50s but with free agency turned on and wanted to use the old Type A/B compensation stuff until at least 2000.

I've made it through several other seasons with the pre-2012 free agent compensation stuff working fine - it's just this one past offseason where everyone's "types" vanished. I think I had closed the game and re-opened it later, and maybe something just got messed up, because after re-opening the game and taking a look at one of the premier free agents on the market, I noticed he had no compensation attached to him, and I could have sworn he had originally been a Type A free agent. So I checked the rest of the free agents and none of them had types/compensation attached - that's when I realized something had gone wrong and went back to manually fix it.

I think it might have been the first day that free agents filed that I quit OOTP and re-opened it later. Maybe doing that on that specific day caused the glitch. Most times I leave OOTP open throughout the entire offseason.

One other thing I realized... even if I know how OOTP ranks the players to determine Type A and Type B, I still have to know if all those Type A/B guys were offered arbitration. I guess I can use the transaction logs for that.

[hefalumps]

Bah... just checked, and the transaction log doesn't indicate whether a free agent received and declined an arbitration offer making them eligible to be Type A or Type B. And the editor doesn't allow you to edit a player's "Type" unless they're not under contract.

Guess the details will remain a mystery unless I get Markus to see this thread and comment.

Consider this a wishlist request for OOTP15 - some kind of report or news item detailing which free agents that offseason are tied to draft pick compensation. I'd love to see the player rankings/scores that are used for typing the free agents as well.

[bp_]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Consider this a wishlist request for OOTP15 - some kind of report or news item detailing which free agents that offseason are tied to draft pick compensation. I'd love to see the player rankings/scores that are used for typing the free agents as well.

I've asked for this before. Would be nice to have some record.

[actionjackson]

I've had this happen to me too. Playing in the 1950's, random debut league, pre-2012 CBA rules, and ka-pow!...At some point over the offseason the Type A/Type B designations disappeared and no compensatory picks were given out in the subsuquent draft.

[hefalumps]

Well I'm sorry this happened to you too, but I'm glad this happened to you too. It means I didn't just hallucinate it.

I still think it had something to do with closing OOTP at a critical point during the offseason. I know a few versions back there was a hard-to-find bug where if you closed OOTP on the last day of the postseason but before you started the offseason, when you opened OOTP back up and advanced to the offseason, the World Series champion wouldn't be recorded properly in history. I'm betting the bug we ran into is something like that. Because I usually NEVER close OOTP during an offseason - I usually leave it open while I do other things. But this offseason I needed to reboot my computer so I had to close OOTP, and I'm fairly certain I was on the very first day of the offseason when I did it. And it was right after opening it again that I noticed the free agent types were gone. I'm just glad I noticed it before I started advancing days.

So careful where you close your game! OOTP must run FOREVER!

[farmkidD2]

Actually, this brings up a question that I now have. How does compensation ever happen? By the OOTP manual, you can only get compensation if you offer arbitration. I thought you can only offer arbitration during their first 6 years(by default)? They don't have the option of running away if you offer arbitration, and after those six years, they are no longer under your control, correct? So how can you ever be in a situation where you can offer arbitration when they can still leave your team?

I know I'm missing something, but the I just read the manual and it doesn't make sense. Can someone explain to me in what situation compensation can actually happen?

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by farmkidD2

Actually, this brings up a question that I now have. How does compensation ever happen? By the OOTP manual, you can only get compensation if you offer arbitration. I thought you can only offer arbitration during their first 6 years(by default)? They don't have the option of running away if you offer arbitration, and after those six years, they are no longer under your control, correct? So how can you ever be in a situation where you can offer arbitration when they can still leave your team?

I know I'm missing something, but the I just read the manual and it doesn't make sense. Can someone explain to me in what situation compensation can actually happen?

You can offer arbitration after 6 years as well, but since they are eligible for free agency it almost never happens. A player is generally better off as a free agent. You have to offer arbitration and have the player decline it to be eligible to receive compensation picks. It works this way in real life too.

Hope that helps!

[farmkidD2]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

You can offer arbitration after 6 years as well, but since they are eligible for free agency it almost never happens. A player is generally better off as a free agent. You have to offer arbitration and have the player decline it to be eligible to receive compensation picks. It works this way in real life too.

Hope that helps!

Is this called restricted free agency, or am I thinking of football? Is there a time period that you can do this for? For example, if I happen to offer arbitration at year 7 and they accept, can I do the same thing after year 8, and so on? Or does this end at year 9 for example?

Another related question, compensation only happens when you controlled a player during his first 6 years, right? I wouldn't get compensated if I sign a free agent to a 3 year contract and then let him go after that contract is up(I wouldn't even have the chance to offer arbitration, correct)?

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by farmkidD2

Is this called restricted free agency, or am I thinking of football? Is there a time period that you can do this for? For example, if I happen to offer arbitration at year 7 and they accept, can I do the same thing after year 8, and so on? Or does this end at year 9 for example?

Another related question, compensation only happens when you controlled a player during his first 6 years, right? I wouldn't get compensated if I sign a free agent to a 3 year contract and then let him go after that contract is up(I wouldn't even have the chance to offer arbitration, correct)?

Don't know about your first question, but for the second one - I'm pretty sure any free agent you sign can be eligible for compensation if you offer them arbitration and they decline (assuming they're Type A/B). For example, a couple of season ago I offered an aging third baseman a one-year deal as a Type B Free agent, and when his contract was up, he was still a Type B. He did alright but I didn' care about resigning him, so I offered him arb. hoping I'd get the compensation pick. Unfortunately he actually took arbitration and stayed on my team! Would have rather had the compensation pick, but he's still done alright at a reasonable price.

Long story short - it doesn't have to be a player that came up through your system.

[farmkidD2]

So if you don't sign a player who is on a contract year, at what point can you offer him arbitration? Do these players pop up on the arbitration screen with the younger players that are arbitration eligible? It isn't that I don't believe you, I just don't remember seeing this ever. I have been out of the game for a bit, so my memory may just be foggy.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Long story short - it doesn't have to be a player that came up through your system.

Right. I could be wrong or partly wrong on the details of this, but I believe one of the reasons for the new CBA was because teams would acquire a free agent-to-be in a trade at the trading deadline, then let him go to free agency and get the compensation pick for losing him. So they'd have a guy for two months, offer him arbitration when there's no way he'd accept it, then get a compensation pick as a result.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by farmkidD2

So if you don't sign a player who is on a contract year, at what point can you offer him arbitration? Do these players pop up on the arbitration screen with the younger players that are arbitration eligible? It isn't that I don't believe you, I just don't remember seeing this ever. I have been out of the game for a bit, so my memory may just be foggy.

Yes, it's the same time frame as with your younger guys who are in the arbitration process. I believe the only difference is that they're listed at the bottom of the arbitration screen, not at the top with the guys who are under your control.

[PhilledUp]

Originally Posted by farmkidD2

Actually, this brings up a question that I now have. How does compensation ever happen? By the OOTP manual, you can only get compensation if you offer arbitration. I thought you can only offer arbitration during their first 6 years(by default)? They don't have the option of running away if you offer arbitration, and after those six years, they are no longer under your control, correct? So how can you ever be in a situation where you can offer arbitration when they can still leave your team?

I know I'm missing something, but the I just read the manual and it doesn't make sense. Can someone explain to me in what situation compensation can actually happen?

For the first 6 years, the team has control of arbitration. If they offer it, the team and player go through arbitration and have a 1 year contract decided that way. If they do not, the player becomes a free agent. This system stays in effect until the player reaches 6 years of service time (ie it still happens after trades, signing as a free agent following non-tendering an arbitration offer, waivers, anything else). Incidentally, I suppose the player could reject arbitration here, but he would essentially choose to sit out a year and not collect a salary or service time. This never happens in the game, and I can't think of any time this has happened in real life.

Once the player reaches 6 years of service time, he earns the right to become a free agent when the contract is over. The team can offer arbitration, but now it's the players decision to accept it. He can accept, and earns a 1-year contract decided upon by the arbitrator, or reject it in which case the team gets a draft pick if he signs with another team.

Is this called restricted free agency, or am I thinking of football?

This is not the same as restricted free agency, which is present in football, hockey, and basketball. In that system, if your player agrees to a contract with another team, your team has the choice to match the offer (and keep the player) or receive draft pick compensation. In baseball, there is no guarantee of a chance to match (unless the player and/or agent offers it to you), though you do get draft pick compensation if they sign with another team.

Is there a time period that you can do this for? For example, if I happen to offer arbitration at year 7 and they accept, can I do the same thing after year 8, and so on? Or does this end at year 9 for example?

Yes you can offer it an unlimited number of times, and to an unlimited number of players. Though if they accept, it means they are likely getting a better deal from arbitration than they would in free agency, so it's probably not worth your while to keep offering arbitration.

Another related question, compensation only happens when you controlled a player during his first 6 years, right? I wouldn't get compensated if I sign a free agent to a 3 year contract and then let him go after that contract is up(I wouldn't even have the chance to offer arbitration, correct)?

Not true. Any time a player is about to be a free agent, you can opt to offer him arbitration.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Right. I could be wrong or partly wrong on the details of this, but I believe one of the reasons for the new CBA was because teams would acquire a free agent-to-be in a trade at the trading deadline, then let him go to free agency and get the compensation pick for losing him. So they'd have a guy for two months, offer him arbitration when there's no way he'd accept it, then get a compensation pick as a result.

I think it was Alex Anthopoulos trading for Miguel Olivo right at the arbitration deadline (not the trading deadline - but in the offseason), and offering arb to him, because he was a Type B player, despite the fact he had no intention of keeping him. I think that's when the other teams said "Alright that's enough, the system's broken, let's fix it."

...And there it is Nov 4, 2010 the Jays traded for Olivo from Colorado as part of a conditional deal and immediately granted him free agency after offering him arbitration. Thank you Baseball-Reference. So blame that AA kid for the new rules.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I think it was Alex Anthopoulos trading for Miguel Olivo right at the arbitration deadline (not the trading deadline - but in the offseason), and offering arb to him, because he was a Type B player, despite the fact he had no intention of keeping him. I think that's when the other teams said "Alright that's enough, the system's broken, let's fix it."

...And there it is Nov 4, 2010 the Jays traded for Olivo from Colorado as part of a conditional deal and immediately granted him free agency after offering him arbitration. Thank you Baseball-Reference. So blame that AA kid for the new rules.

Interesting. I didn't know about that specific instance. But I know teams out of the playoff race have traded for guys at the deadline who they had no intention of signing just so they could get a compensation pick.

Can't blame AA for taking advantage of the system.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Interesting. I didn't know about that specific instance. But I know teams out of the playoff race have traded for guys at the deadline who they had no intention of signing just so they could get a compensation pick.

Can't blame AA for taking advantage of the system.

there was a bit more to it. it was heavily rumoured Olivo wanted to stay in Colorado, so they could not offer him arbitration as he would have likely taken it. so AA came in an offered them money, effectively buying a draft pick, and the Rockies got some form of compensation