Buy OOTPB 14 or wait for 15?

[sandman2575]

While I sympathize with wanting to save a few bucks -- who doesn't want to -- it might be worth appreciating for a moment just how incredibly fair OOTP Developments has been when it comes to pricing this product. When you consider what many boutique developers charge for games that have a dedicated but relatively small consumer niche -- take most strategy titles on the Matrix site, for example -- $40 is a low price. A very low price. $20 is essentially giving it away, for all the work that has gone into its development. These guys don't have the resources of Sega or EA, which routinely charge $60+ for their "AAA" titles, which often are games you play for a few hours and then forget. From a perspective of price-to-hours of enjoyment ratio, $40 is pretty absurd -- absurdly low.

I'm not saying I want OOTP Dev. to charge more, although I would certainly pay more for this game. It's just, when I see these threads about "is OOTP worth the $20?" it's just pretty jaw-dropping.

Yes. The game is worth $20. There are 7 days in a week, the earth is round, and the pope Catholic. It may be a lot for some to pay, but look at it from the other side too. If I were Markus and co., I'd frankly get pretty pissed seeing threads like these.

I hope Steam will bring in many new customers, even if it means selling the game at a discount for OOTP Dev. But it's unquestionably one of the not very fair (from a dev. perspective) side-effects of Steam and digital distributors that routinely have sales that we've started to reflexively think, "Is it worth the 50% off price?"

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

I like to wait until the All-Star special, although at this point, that's less about saving money than waiting for the development team to work all the bugs out, and for cool mods, quickstarts, etc. to be made. The saving money is just a bonus.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

While I sympathize with wanting to save a few bucks -- who doesn't want to -- it might be worth appreciating for a moment just how incredibly fair OOTP Developments has been when it comes to pricing this product. When you consider what many boutique developers charge for games that have a dedicated but relatively small consumer niche -- take most strategy titles on the Matrix site, for example -- $40 is a low price. A very low price. $20 is essentially giving it away, for all the work that has gone into its development. These guys don't have the resources of Sega or EA, which routinely charge $60+ for their "AAA" titles, which often are games you play for a few hours and then forget. From a perspective of price-to-hours of enjoyment ratio, $40 is pretty absurd -- absurdly low.

I'm not saying I want OOTP Dev. to charge more, although I would certainly pay more for this game. It's just, when I see these threads about "is OOTP worth the $20?" it's just pretty jaw-dropping.

Yes. The game is worth $20. There are 7 days in a week, the earth is round, and the pope Catholic. It may be a lot for some to pay, but look at it from the other side too. If I were Markus and co., I'd frankly get pretty pissed seeing threads like these.

I hope Steam will bring in many new customers, even if it means selling the game at a discount for OOTP Dev. But it's unquestionably one of the not very fair (from a dev. perspective) side-effects of Steam and digital distributors that routinely have sales that we've started to reflexively think, "Is it worth the 50% off price?"

These are the kind of responses that piss customers off too. Real nice of you to speak for Markus and company btw.

Someone comes on and asks a legitimate question and they get this sort of crap.

Have you ever gone shopping in your life? Do you always pay the first price you see? Or do you look around a bit to see if there's a sale?

It's a simple question with a simple answer. It doesn't have to be drawn out to make the asker look like a bad guy for asking.

[sandman2575]

My "crap," as you so kindly put it, is in no way presuming to speak for Markus and co. I'm voicing an opinion that's entirely my own, while making the effort to spell out my rationale. I guess that sort of thing is really inappropriate here? I'll be sure to PM you for permission next time.

If what I wrote offended the OP, I apologize. It wasn't my intent to make him look like a bad guy. It was a response to what I see as many threads which imply (if not outright state), "I'm not sure this game is worth the money." I suspect you and I both agree that it is worth the money. We clearly disagree on what constitutes a reasonable response to someone's post. Your's was abusive, condescending, and personal. My post was none of those things.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

My "crap," as you so kindly put it, is in no way presuming to speak for Markus and co. I'm voicing an opinion that's entirely my own, while making the effort to spell out my rationale. I guess that sort of thing is really inappropriate here? I'll be sure to PM you for permission next time.

If what I wrote offended the OP, I apologize. It wasn't my intent to make him look like a bad guy. It was a response to what I see as many threads which imply (if not outright state), "I'm not sure this game is worth the money." I suspect you and I both agree that it is worth the money. We clearly disagree on what constitutes a reasonable response to someone's post. Your's was abusive, condescending, and personal. My post was none of those things.

You're free to post your opinion anytime you like, no need to PM.

Just remember, everyone else here is too. And there's nothing personal or condescending in my reply. Just like yours, it's an opinion.

[sandman2575]

"Have you ever gone shopping in your life?" is condescending. "Real nice of you to speak for Markus and co. btw" is condescending and sarcastic. Calling my post "crap" is abusive and personal. That's not my subjective interpretation. Anyone reading your post can realize that.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

"Have you ever gone shopping in your life?" is condescending. "Real nice of you to speak for Markus and co. btw" is condescending and sarcastic. Calling my post "crap" is abusive and personal. That's not my subjective interpretation. Anyone reading your post can realize that.

No more condescending than your response was. And those are legitimate questions given your response.

[sandman2575]

"Have you ever gone shopping in your life?" is a legitimate question? No. You're right. I've never gone shopping. In my life. Clearly, if I had ever gone shopping, I would realize how grossly out of line my post was.

Anyway, I see no further need to pursue this, since you seem intent on turning it into a "I'm rubber You're glue" type of argument.

And yes, that was meant to be condescending.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

"Have you ever gone shopping in your life?" is a legitimate question? No. You're right. I've never gone shopping. In my life. Clearly, if I had ever gone shopping, I would realize how grossly out of line my post was.

Anyway, I see no further need to pursue this, since you seem intent on turning it into a "I'm rubber You're glue" type of argument.

And yes, that was meant to be condescending.

You're right, I'm sure when people go shopping and ask if something's on sale they enjoy getting drawn out responses about how the developer works so hard and puts so much into the product and it pisses the developer off that they even asked if it was on sale.

Whether OOTP is worth $20 or $40 was NEVER brought into question. It simply asked about a sale. But you felt the need to give the drawn out response about the above mentioned things.

So yes, your reply was out of line. No need to make a potential customer feel belittled for asking a legitimate question.

[The Wolf]

Hey, I'm the expert on getting out of line here and you're both well over it.

Would you please both chill out and walk away? Thank you.

[Fyrestorm3]

Boys! Don't make me turn this car around!


Anyway, getting back on topic here...

Originally Posted by MarkInCincy

Peronally I never buy install any software with a version # of x.0.anything. I always wait till at least x.1 and depending on who's software it is I may wait till x.2. I do that for personal and work

Same here. I make an exception for OOTP, though. I usually install the new version the day it comes out and basically run a test league, something fun like a Sunday softball league, that I'm not going to get attached to in case the worst happens. I like to be able to help out Markus & co. the best I can, and the first release of each new OOTP version is bound to have a couple bugs here and there. I wait until it's been patched once or twice to import and/or start a legitimate league.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Same here. I make an exception for OOTP, though. I usually install the new version the day it comes out and basically run a test league, something fun like a Sunday softball league, that I'm not going to get attached to in case the worst happens. I like to be able to help out Markus & co. the best I can, and the first release of each new OOTP version is bound to have a couple bugs here and there. I wait until it's been patched once or twice to import and/or start a legitimate league.

Same with me. I always mess around and have some fun with the MLB Quickstart between release day and the 1st patch. I know I'll never get attached to a non-fictional league, so its a good way to enjoy (and get used to) the new game without risking the fictional league that I actually care about and will import after the bugs get patched.

[sandman2575]

This is really the last thing I have to say on the subject, but I did want to reiterate to the OP, rovaira, that my post was not meant as an attack on you. Indeed you were not asking about a sale, just about buying 14 vs. 15, so my post was misdirected. Really, I was just thinking out loud about the tendency of threads to pop up around here, the subtext of which seems to be "I'm not sure this game is worth the $". So again, my apologies if you took offense.

[Snarf054]

A couple somewhat related question...if you buy OOTP15 will it install independently from 14 or will it overwrite some things?

Do you continue to play the older versions or do you always import your leagues over to the new version once it's proven stable?

I'm pretty sure the first of my two online leagues will be sticking with OOTP14 since they just moved to it a couple months ago and I was wondering if I bought 15 if I would have to keep playing that league in 14 or if new versions are backwards compatible.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Snarf054

A couple somewhat related question...if you buy OOTP15 will it install independently from 14 or will it overwrite some things?

Do you continue to play the older versions or do you always import your leagues over to the new version once it's proven stable?

I'm pretty sure the first of my two online leagues will be sticking with OOTP14 since they just moved to it a couple months ago and I was wondering if I bought 15 if I would have to keep playing that league in 14 or if new versions are backwards compatible.

Each version installs independently.

[Snarf054]

Thats what I figured but I wasn't 100% sure.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by sandman2575

This is really the last thing I have to say on the subject, but I did want to reiterate to the OP, rovaira, that my post was not meant as an attack on you. Indeed you were not asking about a sale, just about buying 14 vs. 15, so my post was misdirected. Really, I was just thinking out loud about the tendency of threads to pop up around here, the subtext of which seems to be "I'm not sure this game is worth the $". So again, my apologies if you took offense.

I'm not trying to pile on here, but I think you need to remember that the people who make threads like this don't know the game the way that we do. For those of us who play OOTP every day and post here regularly, it's a no-brainer that we'd spend $40 for this game. But for the people asking these types of questions, some of them have only played the demo, others are playing much older versions, and some have only poked around the OOTP website. So they actually don't know if the game is worth $40. And what better place to go than the forums for the game to try to make an informed decision about whether or not to spend $40? I do this all the time with PS3 games, as well as pretty much anything I buy on Amazon (books, clothes, whatever).

I agree with everything you said about this game being a steal at $40, but someone who doesn't play the game day in and day out has no way of knowing that without asking people who play the game.

So while your post wasn't meant as an attack, it did come across as dismissive with a "why would you even ask this?" tone. Maybe just try putting yourself in the OP's shoes before you go ahead and post your initial reaction.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I'm not trying to pile on here, but I think you need to remember that the people who make threads like this don't know the game the way that we do. For those of us who play OOTP every day and post here regularly, it's a no-brainer that we'd spend $40 for this game. But for the people asking these types of questions, some of them have only played the demo, others are playing much older versions, and some have only poked around the OOTP website. So they actually don't know if the game is worth $40. And what better place to go than the forums for the game to try to make an informed decision about whether or not to spend $40? I do this all the time with PS3 games, as well as pretty much anything I buy on Amazon (books, clothes, whatever).

I agree with everything you said about this game being a steal at $40, but someone who doesn't play the game day in and day out has no way of knowing that without asking people who play the game.

So while your post wasn't meant as an attack, it did come across as dismissive with a "why would you even ask this?" tone. Maybe just try putting yourself in the OP's shoes before you go ahead and post your initial reaction.

Best 9.99 purchase I ever made was when I found Season Ticket 2 on the shelf at Best Buy way back when. Funny thing is, I remember saying to myself, it's only 10 bucks and heck there is simply no way it could be as bad as Baseball Mogul. All these years later I'm addicted. That being said, if the game was on the shelf for $39.99, I don't know if I would have given it a chance.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Best 9.99 purchase I ever made was when I found Season Ticket 2 on the shelf at Best Buy way back when. Funny thing is, I remember saying to myself, it's only 10 bucks and heck there is simply no way it could be as bad as Baseball Mogul. All these years later I'm addicted. That being said, if the game was on the shelf for $39.99, I don't know if I would have given it a chance.

Not without at least doing some research, right? That's the point I was hoping to make to sandman. There's nothing wrong with someone coming here asking for help in making an informed decision.

[LeiterFanatic]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I'm not trying to pile on here, but I think you need to remember that the people who make threads like this don't know the game the way that we do. For those of us who play OOTP every day and post here regularly, it's a no-brainer that we'd spend $40 for this game. But for the people asking these types of questions, some of them have only played the demo, others are playing much older versions, and some have only poked around the OOTP website. So they actually don't know if the game is worth $40. And what better place to go than the forums for the game to try to make an informed decision about whether or not to spend $40? I do this all the time with PS3 games, as well as pretty much anything I buy on Amazon (books, clothes, whatever).

I agree with everything you said about this game being a steal at $40, but someone who doesn't play the game day in and day out has no way of knowing that without asking people who play the game.

So while your post wasn't meant as an attack, it did come across as dismissive with a "why would you even ask this?" tone. Maybe just try putting yourself in the OP's shoes before you go ahead and post your initial reaction.

Why does every thread here turn into one of these exchanges?

OP and 14 year old: Go and buy it. 15 is not likely to be a hugely incremental step. $20 bucks is a great deal.