I'm sick of Alex Rodriguez.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Jabez54

Déjà Bru ...

How come Manny's name is not cross off, as well ... did I miss something about him ?? ... wasn't he suspended for 100 games for PED's but instead chose retirement

Ah! Good catch! I'll fix it tonight.

[Jabez54]

Mates ...

I believed that ALL of us had gambled, in one form or another, in playing or watching sports ... in my case, am guilty for kegs of beer, when I used to play softball, in a league, for my company - (which I knew that we All would be sharing that night ) ... however, I'm against Gambling when it was use to lose or shaving points ... Rose did not ... Shoeless played flawless in his Series ...

Just my two pesos worth ...

[canadiancreed]

When watching sports that's one thing. When you're part of the game thought, it throws the entire credibility of the game into question, which makes it WWE on grass I suppose.

[Jabez54]

Good description, mate ...

Just I know my credibility, when I'm playing, because - in my mind, I believed my is team better, hence the bet and a chance for a free drink ... I believed that what's happening between two friendly rivalries of two opposing teams/players ... or even for a cook meal ... but it all in good fun ... that, to me, is fun gambling ... but am against those who were trying to lose or shaving points ... that's despicable ...

But overall, It is best to avoid, anything, that give the appearance of wrongdoings ... So nothing will bite one's behind ...

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by Jabez54

Good description, mate ...

Just I know my credibility, when I'm playing, because - in my mind, I believed my is team better, hence the bet and a chance for a free drink ... I believed that what's happening between two friendly rivalries of two opposing teams/players ... or even for a cook meal ... but it all in good fun ... that, to me, is fun gambling ... but am against those who were trying to lose or shaving points ... that's despicable ...

But overall, It is best to avoid, anything, that give the appearance of wrongdoings ... So nothing will bite one's behind ...

Even if he only bet with his team, would the bet have led him to do something he wouldn't normally do? Push his closer into a game he would have normally rested him? Start his player with a sore hammy? Re-arrange his rotation to give him the best shot at winning his bet? Plus, he knew the rules when he was betting, it's posted in every clubhouse. If you're not willing to do the time, don't do the crime.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

You chose to ignore half of it.

Getting a little testy, are we? I would respectfully suggest not jumping to the conclusion a post must be "out to get you". Other perfectly reasonable explanations exist.

If I want to take issue with you directly, I would do so, and call you a poopy head or whatnot.







By the way, you're a poopy head!

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

Even if he only bet with his team, would the bet have led him to do something he wouldn't normally do? Push his closer into a game he would have normally rested him? Start his player with a sore hammy? Re-arrange his rotation to give him the best shot at winning his bet? Plus, he knew the rules when he was betting, it's posted in every clubhouse. If you're not willing to do the time, don't do the crime.

Exactly. After the Black Sox scandal, the rules were made explicit and harsh when it comes to gambling in connection with the sport, and not just for players but also for those in management.

Now, one can argue that perhaps nowadays the punishment mandated in those rules are disproportionate or outdated, but that's a separate argument.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

By the way, you're a poopy head!

Yeah? Well...you're poopier! HA!

[Tib]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

When you look at it this way, it's hard to envision anybody playing today catching Aaron. Ramirez is done. Pujols?

Hey, John Madden! This making you sick again? So sorry, but I'll "play games with history" as much as I want.

Only, I would not call it playing games with history. "Restoring history" might be a better phrase.

The guys whose names I lined out don't belong on the same list with the guys named Williams and Mays, Maris and Aaron. They are cheaters, liars, and disgraces to the great game of Baseball.

Er, you forgot to cross out Manny there. I'm sure you would want to, seeing as he's been suspended twice for PEDs.

[Jabez54]

Probably forgot to update it ...

[Déjà Bru]

Banned for the season. Appropriate.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Banned for the season. Appropriate.

Agreed - sad part is he's already stated he's going to keep fighting this. So that means we will get another long, drawn out (months & months, maybe years?) saga of him. Every time you open a sports page it'll be "ARod this and ARod that". His name and story will continue to be fed to us on a regular basis.

[MorseMoose]

I'm guessing he'll try and get a court to stay his suspension until they can hear his court case. Right? Which means he'll likely play this year (or at least part of the year).

MLB should just ban him and get it over with.

[NYY #23]

This whole drama just gets old. Of course Arod will continue to fight it because I believe in his mind he thinks he's innocent, and he's got a team of lawyers urging him to fight it in courts with dollar signs in their eyes.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Agreed - sad part is he's already stated he's going to keep fighting this. So that means we will get another long, drawn out (months & months, maybe years?) saga of him. Every time you open a sports page it'll be "ARod this and ARod that". His name and story will continue to be fed to us on a regular basis.

Hence the title that I chose for this thread.

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

I'm guessing he'll try and get a court to stay his suspension until they can hear his court case. Right? Which means he'll likely play this year (or at least part of the year).

MLB should just ban him and get it over with.

Actually, I think they are better off with this result. The reason being, it's said that judges will not interfere with the decision of binding arbitration. Else, what is the point of arbitration?

[Bluenoser]

What bothers me the most about this is (I'm pointing at MLB and all those caught, not just ARod), if you gamble on baseball you get a lifetime ban. If you use illegal substances to enhance your performance, you get suspended and then are allowed to come back.

I just don't get it. A player who gets caught can stand up in front of the world and say "Oh, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Please forgive me".

Ok, here's your X # of games suspension, go sit at home then come back and we'll forgive you. You're now free to continue to play & make more millions.

Last time I checked the laws, gambling was legal (to an extent) outside the sport, PED's aren't. If you're a professional athlete, you're subject to the laws of the league you play in. If you work anywhere else, you're subject to the laws of the justice system.

My son ask me a few years back - How come these guys don't have to go to court like you and I would dad? Sadly, I didn't have an answer for him. He no longer follows pro sports - good for him.

[Eckstein 4 Prez]

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

he'll likely play this year (or at least part of the year).

Almost certainly not.

Labor law isn't my thing, but this much I do know: when a process has been put into place through collective bargaining, as MLB's arbitration process was, a court is going to be very, very, VERY reluctant to overturn that process.

A-Rod would probably have to have some pretty solid evidence of corruption on the arbitrator's part in order to even have a shot. In order to get a court to enjoin the suspension (which he'd need to do in order to play this year), he'd have to convince the court at a preliminary hearing that he'd be likely to prevail in a full trial.

There's nothing certain in this world, so I won't say it definitely won't happen, but I believe it is extremely unlikely A-Rod has the evidence of corruption he'd need to prevail in a federal court. After all, if he had that kind of evidence he'd likely be shouting it from the rooftops right now in order to try to preserve his good name.

tl;dr version: He won't be playing this year.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

What bothers me the most about this is (I'm pointing at MLB and all those caught, not just ARod), if you gamble on baseball you get a lifetime ban. If you use illegal substances to enhance your performance, you get suspended and then are allowed to come back.

I just don't get it. A player who gets caught can stand up in front of the world and say "Oh, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Please forgive me".

Ok, here's your X # of games suspension, go sit at home then come back and we'll forgive you. You're now free to continue to play & make more millions.

Last time I checked the laws, gambling was legal (to an extent) outside the sport, PED's aren't. If you're a professional athlete, you're subject to the laws of the league you play in. If you work anywhere else, you're subject to the laws of the justice system.

My son ask me a few years back - How come these guys don't have to go to court like you and I would dad? Sadly, I didn't have an answer for him. He no longer follows pro sports - good for him.

Excellent post, Bn. Someone asked me the same question about banning for life for gambling versus these, well, I won't call them slaps on the wrist but I will term them light sentences for drug cheating. The answer is "money."

In the gambling case, you are referring to Pete Rose, no doubt. According to Baseball Reference, Rose made an even $1MM for his final season in 1986 with the Reds. He had never made more than that previously. Also, his ban came three years later, when he was retired and there was no more money to be made from him.

Fast forward to 2014, when barring A-Rod from just one season of play will cost him $25 million. No wonder he is fighting like heck. Imagine the hell to pay if MLB banned him for life and he forfeited, what, $86 million? That might be enough to negatively affect the American economy.

And the other guys that you alluded to; they still have value to owners. A-Rod is nearly finished as a player anyway and the Yankees would love to have him off their backs. But those other guys like Ryan Braun still have value. When he's done with his 65-game suspension, he will come back and hit more home runs, be accepted by non-discerning fans, and make more $$$ for team owners and MLB.

That's the difference, these days. I'm sorry about your son, though.

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Almost certainly not.

Labor law isn't my thing, but this much I do know: when a process has been put into place through collective bargaining, as MLB's arbitration process was, a court is going to be very, very, VERY reluctant to overturn that process.

A-Rod would probably have to have some pretty solid evidence of corruption on the arbitrator's part in order to even have a shot. In order to get a court to enjoin the suspension (which he'd need to do in order to play this year), he'd have to convince the court at a preliminary hearing that he'd be likely to prevail in a full trial.

There's nothing certain in this world, so I won't say it definitely won't happen, but I believe it is extremely unlikely A-Rod has the evidence of corruption he'd need to prevail in a federal court. After all, if he had that kind of evidence he'd likely be shouting it from the rooftops right now in order to try to preserve his good name.

tl;dr version: He won't be playing this year.

That's what I thought and what I hope. Everyone will go through the motions now, including the players union, but this will likely be a done deal. Or else what is the point of binding arbitration?

[MorseMoose]

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Almost certainly not.

Labor law isn't my thing, but this much I do know: when a process has been put into place through collective bargaining, as MLB's arbitration process was, a court is going to be very, very, VERY reluctant to overturn that process.

A-Rod would probably have to have some pretty solid evidence of corruption on the arbitrator's part in order to even have a shot. In order to get a court to enjoin the suspension (which he'd need to do in order to play this year), he'd have to convince the court at a preliminary hearing that he'd be likely to prevail in a full trial.

There's nothing certain in this world, so I won't say it definitely won't happen, but I believe it is extremely unlikely A-Rod has the evidence of corruption he'd need to prevail in a federal court. After all, if he had that kind of evidence he'd likely be shouting it from the rooftops right now in order to try to preserve his good name.

tl;dr version: He won't be playing this year.

Thanks for your perspective.

I was just think back to when Kevin Williams and Pat Williams were suspended for the Vikings and they filed for a motion to stay the suspensions until the court could look at it. It ended up taking like a year and a half and they ended up playing through it (and later ended up having to serve the suspension anyway). It is probably different circumstances though and I just don't see the intricacies like you can.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Almost certainly not.

Labor law isn't my thing, but this much I do know: when a process has been put into place through collective bargaining, as MLB's arbitration process was, a court is going to be very, very, VERY reluctant to overturn that process.

A-Rod would probably have to have some pretty solid evidence of corruption on the arbitrator's part in order to even have a shot. In order to get a court to enjoin the suspension (which he'd need to do in order to play this year), he'd have to convince the court at a preliminary hearing that he'd be likely to prevail in a full trial.

There's nothing certain in this world, so I won't say it definitely won't happen, but I believe it is extremely unlikely A-Rod has the evidence of corruption he'd need to prevail in a federal court. After all, if he had that kind of evidence he'd likely be shouting it from the rooftops right now in order to try to preserve his good name.

tl;dr version: He won't be playing this year.

And even to have a chance, he would probably need to testify himself, right?