Your 2014 Hall Of Fame Ballot

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Postman

My list is more heavily on emotion than statistics, I have to admit. I watched all of these players play. The effect these guys had on the game when they were playing makes them worthy of the Hall in my opinion. Also, I consider first ballot Hall of Fame induction a further honor.

Biggio
Schilling
Clemens
Walker
Maddux
Thomas
Glavine

Also, all three veterans nominees.

Interested in why Clemens but no Bonds?

[Postman]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Interested in why Clemens but no Bonds?

Because I'm inconsistent.

Pull Clemens from my list.

[Postman]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

SABR is not just about statistics. In fact, very little of what SABR does involves statistics.

Oh, the members of the society itself? I totally missed your point, then.

I'm still not with you, though. If it's not the baseball writers then it should be the general public. I can't see any reason to anoint another group over, well, you and me.

The writers do a good job. Sure, there are some borderline cases that we can wrangle over, but as a rule the players that deserve to be in the the Hall are in the Hall.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Postman

Oh, the members of the society itself? I totally missed your point, then.

I'm still not with you, though. If it's not the baseball writers then it should be the general public. I can't see any reason to anoint another group over, well, you and me.

The writers do a good job. Sure, there are some borderline cases that we can wrangle over, but as a rule the players that deserve to be in the the Hall are in the Hall.

Many players who don't deserve to be there are there courtesy Frankie "The Fordham Flash" Frisch, who was in charge of the veteran's committee for a while (please correct me if I'm wrong) and thought it would be spectacular to bring his friends along for the ride. They really should have a Friends of Frankie Frisch wing in there.

Then there are the players who are more known for their gloves than their bats like Bill Dahlen, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Alan Trammell, Kenny Lofton who don't get a sniff because voters seem confused about how to evaluate players who played up the middle positions. It's like they line them up against first basemen/corner outfielders who are already in the Hall and dismiss them outright because they don't match up offensively. Duh! No kidding. You have to compare players according to the positions they played because there are different offensive expectations for each.

[Postman]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Then there are the players who are more known for their gloves than their bats like Bill Dahlen, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Alan Trammell, Kenny Lofton who don't get a sniff because voters seem confused about how to evaluate players who played up the middle positions.

If that were the case, you would think you'd see a bias in the Hall against players who played defensive positions, but as you can see there are more shortstops than any other single non-pitching position except for right fielders:

"By position, there are: 72 pitchers, 17 catchers, 21 first basemen, 20 second basemen, 15 third basemen, 24 shortstops, 21 left fielders, 23 center fielders, 24 right fielders..." (Hall of Famers | Baseball Hall of Fame)

Granted, third basemen and catchers are underrepresented.

I have no problem saying a player really had to have to hit the ball to be in the Hall, anyway.

Lofton was a good player and would be in the Hall if the second half of his career was as good as the first. After he parted ways with the Indians he became a journeyman, playing with a different team every season (often two). He was still a good player, no doubt, but he wasn't special enough to stick with a team ever again.

Trammel is borderline at best. Four gold gloves and three silver sluggers in 20 seasons is pretty darn good, but he also turned in some poor seasons at the plate, hitting under .260 six times, three of those below .250. As far as power, he hit over 20 home runs twice (never over 30) and over 100 RBIs once. That's not Hall of Fame hitting. Again, a fine player, sure, but is he one of the 165 best position players to ever play the game? I don't think so.

The other guys aren't from my era.

[actionjackson]

This is the Hall of Fame as it should be (2014 Members not included yet, but will be come January - Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas). The nice thing about the Hall of Merit is that they don't have this silly logjam of players out of spite or personal vendettas or whatever has caused the ballot to have 16 worthy players on it this year.

[dsvitak]

Not in any particular order:

Morris
Maddus
Glavine
Schilling
Biggio
Raines
F. Thomas
Bagwell
Bonds

This is a very strong list. Seriously. Three 300 game winners, five players with 500 homers, six others with WAR in the upper 70's or better.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by The Game

Just wondering why people have Frank Thomas ranked so low in their voting?
I am biased being a White Sox fan and if he along with Maddux go in I will be at Cooperstown next year for the 1st time.
.301 521 156 OPS+ 72.4 WAR .416 wOBA 30th all time according to Fangraphs. Only Bagwell has a higher WAR 80.4 for any player eligible.
Cant seem to find his rank for OPS+ on Fangraphs as I do not see it listed but he is 14th all time in OPS.

Frank Thomas was a beast! He did it all. Average, runs, homers, RBI, OPS+..one of the greatest hitters of his era. Seriously...there isn't a player anywhere that wouldn't cheerfully take his 8th worst season for their year.

Seven consecutive years of 100 runs, 100 RBI, and an OBP of over .400, and OPS+ above 170. Yes. 170. His WORST OPS during this stretch was .975.

[metsguy234]

My list:
-Barry Bonds
-Roger Clemens
-Curt Schilling
-Greg Maddux
-Tom Glavine
-Frank Thomas
-Mike Piazza
-Craig Biggio
-Jeff Bagwell
-Tim Raines

If I had the space, I'd also vote for:
-Mike Mussina
-Alan Trammell
-Edgar Martinez
-Larry Walker
-Sammy Sosa

[metsguy234]

Originally Posted by Postman

Oh, the members of the society itself? I totally missed your point, then.

I'm still not with you, though. If it's not the baseball writers then it should be the general public. I can't see any reason to anoint another group over, well, you and me.

The writers do a good job. Sure, there are some borderline cases that we can wrangle over, but as a rule the players that deserve to be in the the Hall are in the Hall.

I think, personally, that it would be best if instead of just baseball writers, the electorate consisted of a pool of individuals from all parts of the baseball world:

-former players (long retired and not eligible to be voted on themselves anymore)
-managers
-scouts
-statisticians (Bill James, for example)
-BBWAA members
-certain selected knowledgeable fans (maybe there could be an application process to be selected as a fan voter)
-announcers
-prominent baseball bloggers

I think, additionally, that it might be beneficial if the pool of voters changed every year, or went through some kind of rotation. This would, hopefully, ensure that voters select the candidates they think deserve induction into the Hall of Fame right off the bat, rather than saying "he's not a first-ballot guy" and whatnot. Perhaps after being a part of the voting committee, you aren't allowed to participate again for five years or so.

Next, I would remove the limit of ten players per ballot. This year in particular, we've seen many voters (just take a look inside this thread), who are saying "I think these guys should get in, but I don't have enough space for them". That shouldn't be the case. Sometimes there may be a glut of good players who deserve entry, as is currently the case. If a voter were to use their spots particularly "recklessly", so to speak, it's less of a problem since they will not be able to vote in the next few elections, and could be permanently removed from the voting pool by the Hall if that was deemed necessary.

[actionjackson]

Follow the progress of the actual BBWAA vote with this handy dandy little gizmo. As of Orcin's latest post, we're actually only electing one more than the BBWAA. They have Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, and Biggio so far. Things could change, as the gizmo's only collected approx 10% of the ballots (based on last year's total). The heartening thing about this year's vote (so far) is that they're averaging a little over 9 players per ballot. That's a good sign to me. It possibly signals a determination to clean up this mess that they've left in the early years of the PED vote. Still not happy with the Trammell, Martinez, Walker counts, but unfortunately there will be casualties in the writers quest for truth, justice, and above all retribution.

[MarkInCincy]

Schilling
Thomas
Maddux
BAgwell
Glavin

[NYY #23]

My ballot:

Maddux
Glavine
Mussina
Bagwell
Biggio
Thomas
Trammell
Schilling
Raines
Kent

If there was more room I'd include Piazza, Bonds, Clemens, Edgar Martinez, and Larry Walker

[dodger300]

• Maddux
• Bonds
• Glavine
• Biggio
• Piazza
• Raines
• Clemens
• Thomas
• Schilling
• Smith

[Orcin]

Results as of this morning (45 votes):

Maddux 100%
Thomas 84%
Biggio 78%
Glavine 78%
Bagwell 76%

**********

Raines 64%
Mussina 51%
Piazza 51%
Schilling 51%
Bonds 47%
Clemens 44%
Trammell 36%
Walker 27%
Morris 24%
Smith 20%

Voting will close tonight at midnight. Final results will be published tomorrow (sometime).

[gehrig38]

Nice to see smart folks vote, for the most part. Maddux should get 100%, and I think he may end up the highest vote total ever in real life.
Question though, how do you NOT vote for Frank Thomas and actually, given the depth of baseball knowledge, how is Tim Raines not a unanimous slam dunk?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by gehrig38

Nice to see smart folks vote, for the most part. Maddux should get 100%, and I think he may end up the highest vote total ever in real life.
Question though, how do you NOT vote for Frank Thomas and actually, given the depth of baseball knowledge, how is Tim Raines not a unanimous slam dunk?

Ask the BBWAA why their ballot is so crowded. Not really an excuse I know, but hopefully they'll clean it up in time for Pedro, RJ, Smoltz, and Sheffield next year. Sheffy will get beaten like a pinata until the writers are done toying with him due to PEDs. The rest should sail in. Wait what? Did I just try to predict the actions of this unruly Association? Gawd, when will I learn?

[John Madden]

Originally Posted by gehrig38

Nice to see smart folks vote, for the most part. Maddux should get 100%, and I think he may end up the highest vote total ever in real life.
Question though, how do you NOT vote for Frank Thomas and actually, given the depth of baseball knowledge, how is Tim Raines not a unanimous slam dunk?

Agreed 100%, although I feel Raines is falling victim to a bottleneck effect since we're limited to 10, and by my mind's eye I see at least 15 on the ballot who are deserving.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by John Madden

Agreed 100%, although I feel Raines is falling victim to a bottleneck effect since we're limited to 10, and by my mind's eye I see at least 15 on the ballot who are deserving.

Can we take one away for each additional one we add?

I have 5-10 peeps that do NOT belong in the HoF, and we can just swap them, one for one.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Can we take one away for each additional one we add?

I have 5-10 peeps that do NOT belong in the HoF, and we can just swap them, one for one.

Fortunately, OOTPB allows you to edit the HOF in commissioner mode. So your league can have (or not have) the players that you select. I don't there's much OOTPB can do about the real Hall.